The November 6th CALL IN HOUR

Hello everybody. Welcome, welcome. It’s the call-in show to talk to Delaney and
Sean. We’re on the other end of the microphone, hoping that you’ll call us
at 220222-4686.
I love that phone number. In any case, uh a lot of things happening like really
big for us in the ministry. We’ve had some meetings over the weekend. uh well attended a uh grateful for those who
were in participation. It was a private meeting for people who are friends and family uh to discuss the unfolding
events of the ministry coming into January of next year. So uh hang with us
and and keep tuning in. Uh the app has gotten uh quite a bit of response and uh
we’re surprised because we are having people sign up in ways they’ve never done before. Uh Delaney has been
proactive in putting out uh clips which we have not done for quite a while uh to
it showing me talking with Ratio Christie and then teaching and things and um so I mean we have one that’s well
over 20,000 uh views with a lot of incendiary comments which is really
disappointing to us because there’s no need to be incendiary. uh you can just
say what you think and and ask for insight and clarifications instead of
saying that uh I’m a liar and uh stuff like that. So, we’re here. Delaneia is
looking through the comments and I’m going to turn it over to her to see if she has anything to say.
No, just um excited for the rest of this year. Keep an eye out and there’s a lot
more to come. Yeah. So, you can call, you can text, you see on your screen right now, and
you can and enter into the live chat any questions. Um, we have some questions
from the forums at Yeshuan’s. We have and that’s Yeshu.faith
is the website. We have a question in the chat right now and then we have plenty from the repository this week.
So, I always like to prioritize the chat. So, American brunette doll says, “We’ll
listen offline, but will you provide could you provide a fulfillment
perspective to Zechariah 14:E4? I’ve heard this verse being used as
proof Jesus has not returned.” Yeah. Um well first of all uh through
Zechariah 14 um it’s likely that that was fulfilled in the Makabian wars of
the 2n century BC because uh these prophecies though they have a dual
fulfillment in Jewish war of the first century. And so in Zechariah 14:2 the
prophet predicts that quote all the nations will be gathered to Jerusalem to fight against it. This seems to have
been fulfilled when the Roman legions and auxiliary armies consisting of a vast array of ethnic groups from all
over the world attacked Jerusalem in 70 AD. Then in Zechariah 14:4, Zechariah
predicts the Mount of Olives, this is the famous one, uh was to be split in two. Now, if it wasn’t talking about the
Makabian wars, uh then we have to explain it today. Confirmation of the fulfillment of this verse is found in
the fact that the Mount of Olives is split into today. In AD66, at the start
of the Jewish War, an army of angels appeared in the clouds according to two
first century historians. And that supernatural spectre may fulfill verse 5
where it says, “Then the Lord uh my God will come and all the holy ones with him.” One month before the army of
angels appeared in the sky, a miraculous light in the temple lit up the city of Jerusalem so bright that it appeared to
be bright daytime in the middle of the night. That miracle might fulfill verse
7 when it says when evening comes there will be light. And you know, I want to
act like I’m really smart and that I’m just saying all this from my brain, but the fact of the matter is I get it all
from uh people who have spent far more time in in esquetology. And I want to
give you a reference right now to the brunette. And that’s revelation.org.
revelationrevolution.org. Uh, and then you could backslash it to
Zachchariah 14- fulfilled. And u that that reference
along with Adam Marshock who spoke spoke at our um our esquetology conference. Uh
all of it will give you uh the information you need to help support
questions like this in detail. I mean I think the response in the revelation is about 20 pages long with references
citations Josephus uh the midrash of raba lamentations and in Ezekiel. So if
you go to that I think you’re going to get a far more exhaustive answer from these resources than you will from me.
That is really interesting. Um, I’m noticing that with comments about
like predtoism or fulfillment. We don’t really align with predtoism necessarily,
but that they’re like they see things and say
that that obviously hasn’t happened, quote unquote, to things that happened
so long ago that there’s no way they know if it happened. like they’ve never looked into it. It’s a really weird
thing that like it can’t be fulfilled. This and this hasn’t happened. Yeah. But I don’t know. That’s like such a
common response that I I don’t understand fully. Part of the reason is they’re reading
those things that obviously haven’t happened with American English eyes, not
with Jewish eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Jews talked in a very different way than we talk.
Yeah. And then they say, “We are cherrypicking the Bible when they’re
reading it with American English eyes in 2025 as still.”
Yeah. And that opens us up to a conversation that we’ve had in the past, and I really
do believe this. You might not agree, but I think that generally speaking,
most human beings discover and believe what they want to
discover and believe. And it’s partially predicated on how mom and dad brought kids up. It’s predicated
on the things their churches teach. It’s predicated on what their popular peer group teaches and believes.
And it’s predicated on their willingness to suffer for a different view. Yeah. And all of those things plus the need
for certainty play into us seeing and believing what we really want to see and
believe. And I’ve experienced that. We all do. Yeah. And I think you’re seeing that, Delaney,
on the comments in the uh in the social media things. It’s just there’s such a difference
between acknowledging that or not. like seeing and believing,
sitting in it, knowing it’s limited, and accusing others of going to hell or
wielding Satan’s power for doing the opposite. Like, isn’t those are just thought killing
cliches that assassinate the character at homonym and they disclose the
discussion book so that that person can feel like they’ve done God’s bidding. Yeah, I have asked you recently about
the term heresy because and it’s like you you rightfully don’t even talk about
it because of how ridiculous it is and but it’s one of the strongest mechanisms
for like thought killing cliches for individuals to write something off and
call it heretical. Heresy is the most relative term to ever exist. Yeah,
we could call them heretical from the fulfilled perspective like that. It’s so
strange and anyone’s heresy is different from the next and heresy all it to me
they are calling something heretical to affiliate it with cultlike
uh mechanisms but calling something heresy it in itself is cultlike. Yeah,
that is cultlike because you’re saying that this other thing cannot exist
in my presence like it can’t you cannot exist. It is not within orthodox
orthodoxy is a cult. Yeah. Not proper like but like like your point
is dead onult. Your your point is dead on. I do not. It baffles me that people
can’t see that it is a cult. The the mainstream is the cults.
Not the fringe, right? Fringe can be culty 100%. But individuals aren’t cults,
right? Individuals are not cults. I don’t understand that. I don’t know. When it comes to heresy,
here’s the difference a little bit is that the Protestants uh can go back and
they can look at what the general consensus was about certain things. And
when the believers came to a general consensus like the Trinity, eternal
punishment, it became law. And they just look at what it has generally been believed. And so what
they’ll say is, “How come you’re the one who after 2,000 years, you’re the one
who gets to see? You’re the only one. I think you’re the only one saying this, first of all, right? I’m not on anything. Nothing’s
really I have a few original thoughts, but most of them are definitely in the heretical category truly. But the other
stuff is all very common place. It’s just the popular opinion wins. And when
you have 10,000 people believe something versus five, the 10,000 voice is heard the loudest.
But that’s human nature. When it comes to God, yeah, it’s such a different I don’t know. It’s
the same. It’s just done worse. I just want to point out that all you got to do, and I know this is going to bother
people, is that when Yeshua walked the earth, he was heretical and and they absolutely
um could not take it and that uh anybody who came along after
him was heretical. Paul was heretical. These Protestants who stand by their Protestantism, what do they think Martin
Luther was? He was a heretic in the face of Roman Catholicism. Yeah.
And they accept that because it’s not present day. If Martin Luther was alive today behind
this microphone, we would have the lunatics calling him a heretic. Yeah. And calling the whole thing a
cult. Yes. Like Christianity was a cult in its time. In Jesus’s time, that was what
people today would perceive as a cult. A cult. Yeah. It’s wild. Yeah. And even Luther, there’s more to
call what he did as a cultic because there’s Lutheran. We’re not starting
McCrainies. Yeah. It’s like it’s so It’s just
It’s all unfair is what it is. Yeah. I just don’t The Trinity is a big
one. The Trinity is a big one. We had a question on that, didn’t we? That does lead us into the question. Um,
a few people in the chat saying hello. Hi, thank you for being here. Um, please submit questions or thoughts.
But um in the Yeshuan’s app in the forums, we have someone pointing out
kind of this and I’ve dealt with this a lot myself where asking about the Trinity and they bring up a Wes Huff who
is out there doing theological stuff on the internet and
apparently is very knowledgeable and still doesn’t, you know, knows all the
history of everything knows all the same facts that we know but doesn’t acknowledge or see the argument against
the trinity or see fulfillment in the Bible. These things so the the person in the forums is asking why is this what
happens what is it that like people these big
scholars and theologians are missing when they devote their lives to this and we devote our lives to this and we get
these different conclusions. Um, I would first respond with a story.
In Japan back 20 years ago, there was a blind cult leader uh over a group called
the Am Sham Rinko. If I’m pronouncing that wrong, I’m sorry, Japanese fans. And the Am Sham Rico decided that they
should uh all get together and drop, I think it was Ryson, uh, gas in the
Japanese subway. and they killed a bunch of people and the it was like in the high 80s of
members of the Almsham Rinka were PhDs. Wow. Yeah. If you look at Mormonism at the
highest echelons, they have the highest education level uh of all the religions.
I mean these guys are are really well educated. Intelligence has nothing to do James
White is a very smart man. Has nothing to do with the truth. I mean, there’s
it’s outside of Christianity, it’s the case. There’s in very intelligent philosophers that argue that the world
is one way or the other. They literally experience the world and teach it the opposite. So, it’s kind of the same.
It’s the same. So, that’s one thing. intelligence. The fact that someone is schooled or educated, that has never
stopped uh educated men and women from believing that a boy, an angel told them
to go bur dig up gold plates from his hill and translate them through two rocks connected to his eyes. I mean that
defies all of it, right? The second thing is um we have really
underestimated the power of uh culture and tradition in our lives. Um you know
you have to break through those things if you want to open your eyes to other
uh views. And if you all you do is feed your prejudices you’ll constantly see
all the supports for your prejudice. And I’ve done that. I was a trinitarian
and I was a believer in the Mormon godhood and and I have turned my changed
my mind on things. So I’m not perfect at it, but at least I’m willing to change my mind.
When someone cuts their teeth on Trinity from the time they’re whatever and that’s what they prove, I just have to
say is they’re they’ve been biased for presuppositional information. Yeah. It’s not it’s not a show of
intelligence to be able to articulate something that has always existed and
already been articulated. No, like that. And to see it that way
is just what you’re expected to do. Yeah. It’s to see it a different way and to articulate that.
Yeah. as I don’t know what that is, but the third thing about it is I watched
part of the tape that uh our friend uh uh Justin No, Hayden said. Thanks, Hayden. Yeah,
I’ve also tried to talk to Wes, but he always leaves in a huff.
Oh, Delaney hates my dad jokes. But, uh I did watch it and listen,
what he says we don’t disagree with. Yeah, this is the other thing about the subject of trinity. It’s like it’s a
thought-killing word. And if you say I don’t agree with everything about the trinity, suddenly
you are uh anathema to everybody. What we don’t agree with are really not
essentials. Yeah. If you say you don’t agree with the trinity, they think you don’t even think Jesus existed or
Yeah. Some absurd thing or that the Holy Spirit isn’t God. It’s the holy damn
spirit. It’s God’s spirit. Yeah. You still say that all these things are God and it’s
it doesn’t matter. Yeah. It’s still here. Yeah. Yeah. So, all of that plays into
answering Hayden. Okay. Well, uh thank you.
Thank you, Hayden. Yes. On a on a side note, there’s a guy.
Do you ever What’s his name? Alex.
Jeff, you’re in the comments. I feel like you know that influencer podcaster
Alex who is an atheist and he’s starting to come around to the plausibility of
Christianity. That’s happening a lot these days with these different I it’s kind of scaring me actually. I don’t
really like it. Let me tell you uh the the conversion. Alex Okconor. Thanks Jeff. Oh,
okay. Do you know him? No. He’s British, dark hair. Is he a young guy?
I’ve seen clips come up. I’ve I’ve seen his thing, but I don’t watch him, but I’ve seen his little face.
Yeah, I know. He looks like kind of like a a rock star of the of the 60s or something.
He does like a beetle. Yeah, like a beetle. What’s he saying? Well, just you know that it was hot at
the time for him to be into like Richard Dawkins or what? you know, that sort of
they called it new atheism and um that the more that he interviews people, the
more he’s like the actual thing about the story of Jesus is more plausible
than I thought. Like it isn’t this what a atheists make it out to be basically.
So and we’re seeing more and more of it and and and that’s great. It’s nice. I see
Joe Rogan entertaining more Christian apologist guests and all this and and and we see what’s that guy’s name who’s
so popular Canadian PhD Jordan Peterson and all his religiosity.
But I got to tell you, listening to them, they’re all just so lost on details and facts.
Well, that’s the thing. It’s just like any other Yeah. Christian. Really?
Yeah. Really is. It’s any other Christian explaining it to non-Christians.
Yeah. Like but they Well, these guys are with the most intelligent people in the world.
Yeah. So, um Okay. Is there reasoning why Joe Smith
said Jesus was born in Jerusalem instead of Bethlehem since he copied the Bible?
Yeah, he uh just got that mixed up. Made a mistake. And the way they explain that away is that it’s like saying, “I was
born in Los Angeles.” Jesus was born in Los Angeles when he was really born in
Whittier. Whittier is a subset of Los Angeles. Okay. Um, all right. Let’s get to
from Jen. Uh, I want to read it all, but I’ll
summarize the she she has trouble with full esquetology for one reason, and
that is John the Apostle still being around in
90 AD. Not referring to the dating of the book of Revelation, but um the fact
that he like wasn’t taken basically. Yeah. What what is that? We have a little bit
of a picture of that when Jesus and Yeshua and Peter and John and some
others were on the Sea of Galilee fishing and Jesus appeared to them and he made them fish and breakfast and
he said, “Come on in.” And they went in and uh Yeshua has a conversation
uh with Peter and uh Peter says, “Well, what about him?” Point pointing
ostensibly to John. And Yeshua says, “Well, what if it what if he is around
until I come or something? What does it matter to you?” I’m just paraphrasing. Okay, it starts with that in terms of an
answer. So, there is the possibility that he could have been around at the uh
return of Christ. The second thing that is very biblical is God always leaves a remnant.
Yeah. And and that is so that uh other humans can pass information on. So that’s
entirely plausible. The third thing is that the her Jen’s belief that John
lived to 90 is only supported by one reference from a guy named Polycarp who
said he was his friend. And it’s cited by the church historian in 300 something. So that’s how far a
distant the information to validate that opinion is. So we don’t even know that that’s
accurate. We have very little accuracy on timestamps and dates and things like
that. So u if he was a remnant fine if he was
left to hang around fine. If it’s a mistake by polycarp and you see is fine.
It really doesn’t matter because the fulfillment of everything Yeshua said in Matthew 24 uh is supported by uh secular
evidences and revelation. So I don’t the and it’s like this we’ve said this
before Dell and that is when it comes to uh fulfillment and our
stance on it. If it’s 10,000 facts Yeah. we’ve got 9,950.
Right. Yeah. If you want to focus on the 50 Yeah. that we don’t have real clear answers
on. Go ahead. You don’t want to believe it. You’re seeing what you want to see. Yeah. At this point, like with it not
being well known, it’s like the only thing that would really convince someone is if they learn all 9,950
facts, like which means literally studying the book of Revelation themselves. Yeah.
Not just reading Christianity’s greatest dilemma, like right not reading the summaries, like getting
into it. And and I will say uh not proudly, but I will say to our defense, we do have 23
books that go with each chapter of Revelation as a study aid on what was said about
those specific passages. So if somebody doesn’t want to do the work, but does just want to see what we
say, it’s there. We’ve done it for you. But I don’t see anybody ordering those.
No, no one wants to do that work. And yet they’re okay with using the one of
the 50 out of the 900 or 10,000 as not accepting it and being okay with
this other thing that has 5,000 of the 10,000 wrong. Yeah. Like
we have a good friend who comes around sometimes and he came to the esquetology conference
and he heard abundance of information an overwhelming and he’s like I just have one uh
question and he asked the question and he got an answer but it didn’t suff and he said that’s the one that’s the
dealbreaker for me. I’m like you you’re seeing what you want to see buddy come on. It’s like
it’s like he came in knowing he won’t listen unless this one thing is
that’s how we all really work. We do. We really do. That’s why you have to be a seeker you
guys. And you have to be willing to sacrifice your ego and opinions
uh on substantive information. Yeah. Which is why this is going to take a long time to really
Yeah. It it shouldn’t it should take a long time to really understand because it’s
deep and complex. If it’s easy to understand, then it’s been made religious probably,
right? Good point. Yeah. Um okay. I would love to just give you
all a preview. I can’t right now, but maybe next week a screenshot of the
comments that we get just from absolutely every angle you could
imagine. What does that mean? Explain. We get
well to paraphr to paraphrase we get you are ridiculous for having an
invisible imaginary friend in God believing in God you get so we’re too
Christian you get you are going to hell forever and you are a a servant of
Satan. Oh my gosh. Misleading people. We get this is why
Islam is the true way. We get you sound Mormon. We get you blatantly lie.
We get this is beautiful. I fully agree. So every very now and then we get that.
Uh we get you have a man bun. So, I
won’t listen to you. Oh, that one kills me. I I actually don’t understand it. Like, what are they imply? And they they’re
like, “What click are you from with this man bun?” There’s some sort of Please in the chat tell us what does a man bun
mean? Because I have no All I can say is Paul said it’s a shame. It doesn’t it tell you that it’s a shame
for a man to have long hair? Paul says that. Oh, so he that person might be citing that
cultural but there’s a lot there’s a lot one of them one of those was Mormon that said
that and one of them was not Mormon. Yeah. Everyone’s siding with each other for all different ones. we get
um that I am the trinity that
uh this second coming is inside of me that the second coming is happening later that the second coming already
happened we get just truly anything you can think of it’s anything anything you can think of
you name it hell I believe annihilationism I don’t think it’s a real fire I think it’s a real fire I
think it’s eternal I think it’s purgatory it’s endless baptism You name it. And that’s why we say
doctrine does not matter. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. The the material
that we just get in response proves the point, not the the general sense of all
of it together collectively. Uh Jeff says, “These commenters, lol, son
Sean’s man bun is doctrinally sound. It’s truly at that level. You are not
doctrinally sound for having a man bun. That is the type of we get.
It’s almost like saying they’re not circumcised. So true. This stuff is not new really, is it?
It is true. Cults always try to control people’s hair, clean shaven missionaries, etc. That’s true.
True. But for some reason, some of these manben comments seem to be coming from
like not religious perspectives. It’s like it feels like a you are affiliated
with like some sort of secular. I looked it up. I googled what is a man bun like
is it a liberal? It’s like it’s I think it’s political. I think it’s more like
um yeah liberal. You’ve not met anybody more fiscally conservative in your life.
I believe in fiscal conservativism. That’s funny because you also will just give your money to any homeless person.
I have a I know you have a you have a generous heart. Well, I’m not political. I am more lean
liberalleaning. Not uh in fiscally though. And I just think that we the
government should help our poor. That’s the only way I’m liberal leaning. I’m not liberal in the sense of moral
liberalities, you know. Yeah. Um, and none of that has to do with your
beliefs, it must be said. Uh, yeah. So, I mean, I could enumerate.
I’m literally looking right now. Grow up, dude. It’s a fairy tale. Uh, I know
the Bible. You’re completely wrong. I love that. I’m re I’m just that’s a
small snapshot. So um
and I have to address that it was very upsetting for me for a moment because
this is new to putting these shorts out and stuff. But uh maybe if you guys want
to chat your thoughts about how I can see it in reality and but part
of my understanding is that I think there’s this sense of distance that this person has
from you and they don’t feel like they are looking you at the in the face and
saying these words to your face. They think they’re putting they’re almost like talking to each other.
Like comments are more to talk to each other than to address the person in the
video talking. And so they like I’m the subject of a conversation.
Yes. Yes. Like they it’s almost like you don’t exist. You are just something that
came out of the ether and brought up a topic that they can now all talk about
and hate on. Like the hate isn’t on you as a person. It is. Yeah. Like it is on
you as a person, but I get that. I think that’s probably a good assessment of it all.
Well, it’s the only way I can make sense of the vitriol that Christians speak
with in comments. Um,
oh, just now we got a comment that I’d like to look at. I’m a bit confused.
And is this person espousing, this is in your Horatio Christi in the full video,
they’re watching it. Is this person espousing a predtoous view in which all of the things Christ
prophesied that would happen before he returns happened in 70 AD and therefore nothing else needs to happen for Christ
to return so he can return at any moment? No. Or is he saying that Christ already
returned physically literally establishes eternal kingdom that we all simply missed it? Like the students of
the Apostle John such as Ignatius of Antioch simply missed the fact that Christ came back again during his
lifetime. Yeah. I’m honestly confused as to exactly what this guy is saying about history. That’s what I’m saying.
Yeah. Okay. Um, Leviticus 19:28, Exodus 24 and5.
Don’t worship idols and especially don’t tattoo them on your body. Bra has both on one hand.
Bra Jesus is going to return with printing on his thigh. And what kind of what is what is printing on skin called?
The tattoo. So get off your high horse. The only people who couldn’t be tattooed were the high priests in ancient Israel.
And uh that was because it was mimicking what was the Egyptians were doing. And
uh today we have liberty. To the pure, nothing is impure. I don’t see a tattoo
as defiling me. It’s not what goes uh into the mouth that defiles a man. It’s
what comes out. And what just came out of your mouth, bruh, is uh more heinous
than me printing on my body. So, grow the up.
Okay. Um, that’s great. I mean, that one
that one gets people out of arms in general because a lot of people obviously think it’s BS. But um
by the way, you know, just to say it again, I know you guys are probably sick of it, but I didn’t get my first tattoo till I was 50. And I got it because I
carried around a chip on my shoulder given to me by my mom, which were people who have tattoos or evil, low-life
scumbags. And I always looked at people with tattoos through those eyes. And when I realized that was so deep in me,
I said, “Screw it.” And the first tattoo I got was the cross on my hand. I had to sign a waiver because it was my first
tattoo. It was on my hand and it was put on my hand the opposite way that it was
supposed to. Yeah, that’s the opposite. It’s supposed to be when my hands hanging down. You see it?
You wanted it the other way? No, I wanted it this way. And I had to agree that the artist would not be held
responsible for it being upside down. That is 50-year-old man. That’s so weird that there’s a supposed
to with Oh, yeah. It’s the person looking at you is to see it in the way it’s supposed to
be seen. So when you look at me, it’s upside down. Interesting. I didn’t know that was like a rule for the artist. Huh.
Um uh girl master, is there only certain
people the LDS will baptize for the dead?
Uh, I think there’s been some historical cases where they won’t baptize somebody who was like a felon or serial killer.
They if that name comes up and they can catch it, they won’t do that. Uh, but that could be folklore. I’m not
sure. That’s interesting. Yeah. Uh, Jeff just donated $10. Thank you.
Thank you, Jeffrey. While you get noticed when it’s like a Yeah. It’s like in the chat they can support.
Wow. He donated for Sean’s hair elastics or care have his own unique choice.
And he also said your episode explaining about tattoos made a friend of mine cry and joy because she got told she
couldn’t have a tattoo the way she wanted it as well. Madeful. Wow. That’s really nice. Thanks Jeff for the
support. Yeah. I love to meet you. Is he in the state? I know. He’s in Oregon.
Oh, we should get together someday. Expose your location. Uh, I know. It’ be
nice. What’s What’s his last name? I don’t know. Is it It’s a joke.
Oh jeez. Oh my gosh. I was actually about to say I I I don’t
It’s one of one of two. I go off of your email or your username and I can’t tell
which one it is. Wait. Roseber, Oregon. Jeff Day. I’m not ashamed to say it.
All right. Way to be bold, brother. What is your email has a different name
after Jeff than day and I didn’t know if that was your last was a different last name.
Okay. Um, let’s keep going. Do you have some
We went over earlier. You keep going, babe. Questions.
Okay. One second, guys. Sorry about this.
Let’s see. I did write some things down here. If I can get my moose to work.
Moose. We answered Jen. Oh, somebody uh
commented on me sounding exhausted in talking to the LDS.
And uh this was on full circle his first episode where he’s defending Mormons and
they’re just saying that you’ve gotten tired of standing up for the truth basically. Come on, man. That’s all we do is try to
stand for the truth. But we try to be reasonable and understand people come from different places. I’m not
exhausted, but I do get exhausted by uh staying in the same rut doing the same
thing and expecting different results. Mhm. So, I do speak the truth and if I talked
to any LDS person, if they asked me, I would and they wanted articulation, I’d
explain all the things I disagree with them on. But Mormons, the people, the believers in Mormonism deserve to be
defended because they have the right to believe as they want. They include Christ in their doctrine. And that’s not
up to us to decide. It’s up to God and the and the individual. So, I think we should just be hands off on that.
Another one is Rich P and Al aka Zoom had a conversation and Rich P uh talked
about the importance of submitting to the authority of the church. We get it a lot. That’s one of the most
common submitting to the authority of the church. So, let’s just talk about it uh
reasonably because Yeah. So he he brought that up because we’re arguing for the spirit,
the fruit of the spirit to guide uh love being the metric and he’s saying
that the spirit leads people in all sorts of directions and that’s why the fixed authority of
the church is what allows you to discern right from wrong especially with like uh
doctrinal interpretation. So I would suggest uh that the spirit with
the capital with the article ‘the’ being capitalized will never lead everybody in
different directions. That uh uh unless it has to do with some subjective thing
in their life like you need to get off the railroad tracks or you’re going to be killed. He doesn’t give that to everybody. So maybe there’s
some differences. But when it comes to doctrine and theology, uh, and how to believe, the spirit’s going to be the
spirits, the spirit of truth. Okay. So, an example is
that you’ve been going by the spirit, I think, your whole life to some degree,
but you’ve changed doctrinally. So, at one time it it was I think it’s
more like an uncovering over time, but I think what people don’t address is
that the spirit working happens over a long period of time and
that mistakes happen in the meantime that are our humanity getting in the way. Right.
Absolutely. So, and I’m really glad you pointed that out because while the spirit is leading to the
truth, we see through a glass darkly and we mis we misinterpret things.
Even when we have the scripture to back us up, we misinterpret things. That’s why I’ve changed my mind. I haven’t
changed my mind because the spirit suddenly came to me and said, “Change your mind on this.” Yes. I changed it because I gained more
information from the scripture that said your your former view is incorrect. Right.
And the spirit then I believe validates the change. And so that’s how I use it. Okay? Because there are many people who
I do think earnestly are going by the spirit who read and discern
information very very differently. Absolutely. So that’s the problem that this person
is addressing. Okay. And I don’t think that you disagree that that happens. No.
So what is going on? Is it they I think they would say the like either it’s that
the spirit is unreliable or that the spirit is not in one or the other. And I
don’t think either of those is true. The spirit is in people who see through
a glass darkly. So then why the conversation
or the point about discerning something by its fruit? Okay. because it people are off off
in context of that comment. What they’re commenting on was a clip that you put up that what I was saying is the way to
determine if your interpretation of of a set of passages is correct is does it
support agape love? Does it create lend to push for agape
love? And I use the example of for instance, Joseph Smith said polygamy is
from God. And uh and so someone could say, well, I’ve been to the Bible and it is in
there. And and so that is an inferior source to get your truth from when it comes to the
Bible because the Bible does talk about God giving David all of Saul’s wives and
all these other things. So the question becomes, what how do you discern between what’s in the Bible?
Should we still be stoning people? Should we still be hating uh homosexuals or whatever people do? And so my litmus
test is, does my interpretation of these passages support selfless, insufferable,
sacrificial love? And when you do that, it is almost failproof in terms of you being able to
rightly interpret doctrine. Okay. Yeah. Okay. That’s all that was. But I think you
would have argued like
it’s the case still stands that two different people are seeing through glass darkly going by the spirit
thinking that it’s producing the fruit of love and it’s not and they learn the hard way or whatever. So
even deeper maybe than all of this is that we can’t tell if someone is going
by the spirit or not. That’s true. Would you be able to say that? Would you go as far?
So then yeah, it’s so this idea of discerning it by
its love is for oneself. For oneself. It’s not to say someone else is loving
or not or going by the spirit. Is that is that true for you? I would agree with that. Okay. The other thing to add to it too is that the
spirit um the scripture talks about uh different dimensions of of understanding
and it talks about being a milk drinker and Paul criticizes the believers or the
writer of Hebrews criticizes the believers in Hebrews 5 for being immature and not being able him not
being able to talk to them about Melzdc. M and so we also have the idea that
um God does not give a four-year-old war in peace, right? There is the spirit revealing things
according to your level of maturity. Yeah. So we are going to always have differences of opinions. And therefore
we say as a response to all of these things, it is love that should abide and triumph
over differences because we’re all in different places. And because of those affirmentioned
facts I just gave, right? Because you arguing that the spirit is working
with someone again is an individual
process. It’s not the spirit and the love produced by a group or a
rel a a denomination or something like that’s never going to be the case.
Denominations might be more or less loving but
they aren’t they aren’t because they are exclusive like that in itself is not like the spirit and love and all this
stuff is an individual process. It is it is and that’s why we say the faith is subjective and it’s your it’s your walk
and your learning. Yeah. You made me think of something else about that and that is
spirit love. What were you saying about that
maturity? Oh, uh, consensus, the collective.
Um, there’s a really fascinating thing that I see the LDS do a lot of this and
others do too, is that they make the mistake of thinking when
there’s emotions involved, the spirit is there. Yeah. 100%. And the Mormons are classic at this.
They’ll cry and they’ll say, “Do you feel the spirit? Do you feel the spirit?” Yeah. And uh the spirit’s not lacrial, man.
The spirit is straight up and truthful and it’s hard sometimes to hear the
spirit. So, I don’t know about all that emotional side. That’s interesting. like the spirit
being applied because you make a you do a lot of teaching about the difference between your heart and your mind, will
and emotion. Different versions of Christianity apply
the spirit or wield the spirit through one of those. And Mormons use emotion. I
think Christians use their mind. The spirit is about uh logic. That’s right.
Like if it makes sense, the spirit is in it. And um
I’m curious about the will that be like a very militant religious group Amish might be will
driven deep spirit because they have the motivation to act and yeah that’s really
interesting and I think a lot of religious people uh will assign feelings of patriotism
to feelings of God that the spirit is making them proud of their country.
Yeah. It’s really distinguishing the definition of the spirit in the
Yeshuan context is very specific. Yeah. It’s very specific individual
uh heartbased not emotions, not even facts, right?
And um uh yeah, I don’t know.
Yeah. And what Delaney’s mentioning if you don’t know is that we really do draw a distinct line between how this world
operates on our human mind, will and emotion and teological uh ethics versus
how the spirit from the individual’s heart is reflect is is uh they’re in harmony
with the spirit from their heart when they are standing in truth. Uhhuh. And and it’s their heart. It’s not their
mind, will and emotion that God looks at. Yes. Yeah. Definitely.
So that’s why I say you can have a Muslim, a devout Muslim man who doesn’t
only believes Jesus was a prophet. Yeah. And believes in Allah and God and they
can be just as justified before God because they will learn his their knees were bowed that it is Christ.
It’s not saying it’s not Christ. It’s just that our knowledge is right. Our mind warped. Yeah,
let’s get to let’s read some of these. What is Well, really fast.
The word spirit means wind, not water. Tears have nothing to do with it.
It’s funny. Patriotism and quote unquote school spirit and team spirit are all examples
of that pride feeling. Not necessarily bad. And I don’t think this is wrong necessarily. I just think the air is
thinking that these feelings can be a measure for truthfulness. Yeah. Which is also to say that that’s the spirit of
God. Like, right, those are different spirits to me. Like the spirit of God that’s working in
people is a very different spirit than the spirit that we feel through our
mind, will, and emotion toward earthly things. When I think about it, if I was to say that I went to
a patriotic parade or a football game and the spirit was strong, you know,
such spirit there. Um, or a military march or any of that.
Um, when I compare that to the fruit of the spirit that comes that I’ve experienced
with God, the fruit of the spirit that comes with God working on the heart creates
humility. It creates humility versus those other things create pride,
you know, the military, the football team, the Yeah. And so and and that’s
why I don’t really appreciate much music in in churches because they use that to
create these feelings. Yeah. But they’re just emotions. Yeah. Which is the It’s the
Yeah. It’s again it’s the conflation of one spirit with another. The conflation there. It’s a conflation.
Paul said, “Test the spirits.” And that’s I try to do that. So, I’m very spiritual, but it’s demons and
darkness that I feel too. Yeah. Spiritual is not the same as the
spirit. No, it is not. When people say, “I’m spiritual and then they take you to read
tarot cards, it terrifies me.” Yeah. Yeah. Probably. But okay, so back
to the original comment which is
that the spirit like the authority of the church is the discerner of the spirit. There’s
been another comment that the bi it’s the you know this is a common one the two-way thing like you
don’t under you don’t know what the spirit is without the bible and then you can’t discern the bible without the
spirit so you learn like you check on something being of the spirit through
the bible do you know what I’m saying um and I can agree with that to a great
extent yeah yeah I commented back like that I don’t think we disagree with that it’s just the collectivizing of it.
Yeah. And let’s talk about that for a second. The authority of the church. I want to know
where the authority comes from. If you can, if anyone can answer that, then I will say okay.
Well, they do answer that and they all answer it differently, right? They answer it differently and they answer it in effectively.
Yeah. Like like absurd authority is from one. It’s from some some type of
consensus first of all and it’s either
consensus about an interpretation of the Bible or consensus about how things are
done. Yeah. As humans or ritualized.
And it’s a consensus that you put the power into men’s hands. Yeah. Or it’s a man. Yeah. Like it’s a
man directly connected to Jesus. It’s one of these. It’s all abstracted
connections to Jesus in different forms. That’s those are the different forms of
authority claims, but none of them are Jesus himself, right? And none none of them uh are
absent of uh gaps. Yes. No, not at all. Like comical.
Yeah. But but then the alternative that I have
trouble with is people saying seeing the ridiculousness of that and
saying authority is in me like I have authority like
just as ludicrous. Yeah. And we’re saying it’s subjective and individual the individual read is
essential but it’s not an individual read of ourselves. No, it’s
I’ll guarantee you uh from my position that uh all true
followers of God through Christ submit everything to him as the authority.
And I’ve had a pastor tell me, “Well, that’s going to lead you to trouble.” Direct authority from Christ. It’s never
led me to trouble. I What is the basis for saying that would lead you to trouble? What do they say?
What trouble? Because the early church was founded on apostles and teachers and deacons and
and so all these men in the early church to govern the bride were in place for a
purpose. So that one maverick doesn’t get to go out and just become uh something that he
wants to do. Well, that shouldn’t happen if it’s inflicted on other people. One
maverick can go and do whatever he wants. Right. Right. If it’s inflicted on other people and coerced, then it’s a bad
thing. I have yet to uh agree with it because I’ve tested it myself and I submit
wholly everything I can to him. I do it every day, numerous times a day. Always
have. And uh you know that’s what he teaches. Yeah. The word is aray.
He’s our primary principle. There are no subarres to us. And men want to have
always wanted to have kings. Yeah, it’s been really I finally think I understand
what you mean by this and it’s taken me a really long time because Christianity
claims that that’s what they do, right? It’s really really hard to parse out
that they don’t do that because if you get into conversation, it’s like of course it’s Jesus first and
only, right? And they’ll never not admit that. But like unless they’re like very like
understand what they believe. But um like a normal Christian doesn’t
understand that at all. Like me. I did not understand the difference. So
Jeff to identify an authority on earth just allows that entity to coers people.
Exactly. Why willingly be coerced or coerced when instead we can just use our
minds and conscience and all try our best to navigate? Well, I agree with that to a certain
extent, but my worldview uh is pretty convinced that even the
most noble and and and benevolent souls who embark on that path,
if the circumstances are right, they will fail. Right. Yeah. So you do appeal to an authority.
The authority is the source
and the result is no coercion from another and
no coercion upon another. Right. And no shame, no guilt, no judgment, no
condemnation. Yeah. But you also I think you would acknowledge that what Jeff is saying is
the reality. Oh yeah. Which is we have our own minds and consciousness and we decide what our
authority is. Like that’s the reality of life. It’s such the reality and it’s the reality in every church imaginable
unless they are a totalistic methodologies cult where the people
surrender everything over to the authority. Right. Otherwise, you go to any distypical even
Mormon, Baptist, Catholic, they all have their own beliefs, right? Yeah. Yes.
Individually. Yeah. Um, sorry, girl master, but he asked a
question a while ago, which is, “What is the cere Oh, wait. Did we do this? What’s the ceremony like for the dead?”
When he was asking about the baptism for the dead, what’s the ceremony like? Does the elder carry the corpse out of the
coffin? That would be so I was so that’s the one
thing I did do as a kid. Yeah, I was a child. The 9-year-old
you get to take on a trip and go into the temple. It was one It is eerie. It was eerie
then. I did not know what was going on. Yeah. And they put you in a font and they
baptize you over and over and over again, reciting different people’s names as
they do it. And the font is in this creepy basement. Yeah. With sitting on bowls and it’s the
whole thing. What are they? BS. Yeah. Bowls. Are they bowls? B U L L S. Not B O W L S.
Statues of BS. Yeah. They they take that from the ancient Israel. Okay.
But uh it’s in the basement because that’s the lowest level of uh uh
ordinances a person can get. And as you go up, you climb physically up. That’s
taken from masonry. Wow. But bottom line, what they do, that’s why they have genealogical vaults that
are the biggest in the world here in Utah. And they have the genealogies so that they can derive names of people that
they put through their system and then they give the man in the water in the font the names of a dozen people. And
then they take a little child and they baptize that child in the name of those 12 people. And then they go through and
have the other work done for them vicariously so that the people on the other side can all have the the LDS
rituals done for them. So if they choose the truth on the other side, they have
it all done. Well, it is charitable. Oh yeah. I mean it’s it’s a system.
Yeah. At least they care. That is pretty interesting that they
think it can change in the afterlife. Yeah, they do. And they they really pride themselves in that because they
say Christians say you’re going to hell. Yeah. That’s I see how there’s these different alignments with what we say in
Mormonism. Yeah. With the Trinity and the Smith outsmarted the Christian church.
Truly. For sure. Yeah. And we’re outsmarting Smith. Not me. We’re That means you guys
listening, too. That’s funny. Um, okay. It’s 100 p.m.
Do you know where your children are? 100 p.m. Mountain and we are going to
wrap it. Hey, we love you guys. Uh, calling in, writing in, uh, Jeff and others. And,
you know, I hope that you’ll leave today with the notion that, uh, the love is everything, man. It’s everything. Uh you
will not die. I cannot believe you’ll die. And say, I wish I would have been
right on this doctrine. And be happy that you failed in love. Always choose
selfless, sacrificial, insufferable love in the name of our king.
Delaney, I leave it up to you. Thanks for that conclusion. We love you all. Tune in next week.