The Most Advanced, Fair Explanation of Mormonism You’ve Never Heard

The Most Advanced, Fair Explanation of Mormonism You’ve Never Heard | HOTM EPIPHANY w Shawn McCraney

Transcripts:
Dear friend, if you want to feel better, don’t let the devil make you toss this letter. If you’ve been crossed off by hoodoo, voodoo, the wizard or the lizard. You got family trouble, man trouble, woman trouble, no life to the trouble? You’re looking for a true friend or a true lover, or if you believe in the trouble.
Well, I’m coming to your town to break it all down and help you with all of this. I’m looking to help you find bliss one day, but one way can’t miss. I’m here to tear all the walls down. Doesn’t matter if it’s a large town or a small town. Just like Joshua and the fable rules of Jericho, I’m here to tear down the institution.
But you must tell seven friends. You must first bring seven friends. And don’t be selfish and keep this all to yourself and don’t eat selfish. Hate is trying to take someone else’s love for yourself. But I’m here to tell you that love is trying to help someone else. You need to see me right away so I can fix this up.
You need to see me right away. I can fix this. You need to see me right away. You need to see me right away so I can fix this. You need to see me right about now. And if you are suffering a strange sickness. Or someone is blocking a follow your success. You need to see me right away so I can fix this up.
Sounds sincerely yours in faith, love, and peace, your friend Archbishop Harold Holmes. Hey guys, Heart of the Matter Epiphany, an absolutely new approach because we’ve been working on a new approach. This is my youngest daughter, Delaney McCraney Norris. I’m Sean McCraney, and we have for over 20 years, but 20 years in this ministry, tried to understand what is truth, what is not, And so we’re going to have a belabored discussion. We apologize in advance for how long this goes, but you can’t cover the history of
Christianity, realizations, Mormonism, and 20 years of content without giving it a serious jab. And it’s going to take a little time thank you Delaney your 20 years your 20 years were very full well we and listen we also are have not planned anything and that’s something we’re doing this year in epiphany because we claim that this is the next age of the risen Christ coming up in those who are truly his, we are trying to do heart of the matter by the spirit.
Before we planned out everything, I wrote everything out, but all I have here are notes so that I can read from them for things that might come up later. Yeah, there’s a topic that we wanted to discuss and we think about it, but it’s not scripted. Right. Okay, so today, what is the topic? The topic is arc-studied and the subtopic is the most advanced fair explanation of Mormonism that you have never heard.
of Mormonism that you have never heard. We will get into it. We will. It’s going to be, just give us time. You’ll understand if you give us time. All right. So this is running live, but the pattern will be that we put it up live and then we’ll make sure to put chapter markers in the YouTube description so you can kind of track the segments of each video after the fact all right so and also just to put it out there people can access more information at yes you wins yes you in stop faith that’s why esh you a ns faith. It’s a mobile app or a web app.
You can sign up for free. It has like over 10,000 hours of content for free in lots of forums, courses and books, articles, shows, podcasts, everything. And that gives us more of a foundation to this hour, two hour plus conversation we’re going to have. If you want to go deeper, that’s the thing about us.
We’ve made it so that we’re going to give you the surface, but you can go deeper if you go to yeshuans.faith. Yeah, there’s so much there. And we encourage anyone who’s interested and disagrees or whatever it is to go to Yeshuns. We’ll refer to Yeshuns throughout this conversation. And when we say that, it means the organization and it means that website.
And last week on our first Epiphany show, we introduced our family who are kind of our board that we respond to. We govern the ministry as a family, but Delaney and I are partners, and she is over everything really administratively, and then also more and more coming into a new application of all this content in different realms.
And that says to me that it has merit because you can take it in one realm and she can take it in another. So hang with us. We’ll come forward. We encourage you to watch last week to really gain an understanding of the perspective that we’re coming from when we unpack a lot of what will be talked about today. So you’ll get a better holistic understanding of our goals here.
So one last thing. And we also want to thank our think tank. We have, we’ve had several leadership who are not family and they are someone that we meet with on a regular basis. They are long devout believers. And then we have other people who are with us that have been with on a regular basis. They are long, devout believers.
And then we have other people who are with us that have been with us forever, Danny Larson, et cetera. And everybody contributes to the overall vetting, presenting, thinking, asking to get us to this place we’re at today. All right, I’m finally ready. Awesome. Okay, ARC studied is a loaded term and we’re going to go through all the facets of that load.
Um, and I think the best way to do it while there’s again, 10,000 hours of content that you can go to, to hear all of this again I’d love to just do a very short introduction of your history with Mormonism okay because this is going to be about Mormonism specifically arc studied is a term directed at the LDS Church specifically and um you your heart is for Mormonism it always has been your whole life has been for it and um so the yes you in context specifically about Mormonism is is what we’re talking about here so your history with it I have several questions why you haven’t let it go
why you keep doing it how you’re different from other people talking about Mormonism. Your mystical relationship to Joseph. All these different things. Okay. Brief overview. Brief overview. My mom was hit by the LDS Sister Missionaries in Los Angeles, California when she had two or three kids. I can’t remember.
And she joined the church. My dad joined a few years later and I was born in the covenant. That’s the way Mormons explain that my parents were sealed in the temple. Children who came forward from them after they were sealed were born in the covenant. And so I grew up LDS. I love the culture. I love the dances.
And everybody, you know, Dillon and all these guys, they say the same thing. It’s nuanced. Oh, it’s a great church or we like it. But I never was really able to assimilate into it from my heart because I’m very different and I’m an artist and I’m, um, I am not made in ways that most LDS people are.
And so if you’re able to conform to their model, there’s a place for you, but I was never able, really able to, uh, to conform. Uh, so before I went on a full-time Mormon mission and they allowed me to go, I was disfellowshipped, uh, from the Mormon church by a bishopric. And, um, and then I was re brought back in and then I went on a mission to Pennsylvania and I, I hit the highest levels of leadership because I am a kind of a charismatic, fun person.
And LDS people are really smart when it comes to human management. They look for talent and they use it. And so they did that. And I was I grew a lot from that mission and I actually loved it. I had experiences on that mission and came home, got married, got engaged to mom almost, if not the night I got back.
And because my mission president said I should, we married in the Los Angeles temple. We embarked on a life of raising our family Mormon. through similar to someone joining the army because it gave me such structure that I decided to really follow and I did and I was able on that mission to do that but at the same time that’s because it was so regimented it’s just like someone being put in prison and when they’re in prison they can behave but when they get out they can can. I couldn’t. So after we married and we started
having you guys, Mallory and Cassidy and you, I started to unravel. And I had a lot of positions. So the church helped me have a place and it gave me, ostensibly gave me meaning, but that meaning was not congruent with who I was. So I always felt at odds. And I started to search into everything. Long story short, I’ve covered this a billion times.
And at the end of it, my searching led to complete disbelief of Mormonism. Then it kind of led into disbelief of God even, who she was, who he was, what it was. I became sort of a nihilist. I became sinful, so to speak, in most ways. And then in 2001, I asked to be excommunicated from the church. I was a high priest then.
I had been a seminary teacher, a bishopric member, a stake high council member. So all of those things, I had all the props of support from the institution as long as I played the game. And that’s kind of the thing. Any institution, and I’m going to throw out my ideals as we go, thing any institution and i’m going to throw out my my ideals as we go any institution can handle weak people uh needy people they don’t mind them they don’t treat them the same they don’t mind them but when you speak out yeah institutions you know corporate government whatever does not
handle speaking out yeah it’s like they, it’s like Christians are the same, not to, I kind of always do that because I have more with Christianity, but like they bring you in with open arms and it’s condescending because they think you haven’t done any work thinking about any of this and it’s brand new to you and that when you hear it, it’s going to be true and sit with you.
And then, and then when it’s not, they’re more vicious than they ever have been. It’s pretty bad. And we see all those things on social media where it’s like, Jesus says, come to me. I love you as you are. And then the next little frame is, but if you don’t follow me, you’re going, you know, so it’s all of that game and that stuff was in me so um so i got excommunicated and by request mom and i sat before a stake high council in park city and it was ridiculous mom saw right through it the bishop of that ward counseled mom to leave me and um and
kind of started her journey yeah that was a big red flag for her. Big red flag because she knew I had problems, but she also knew I loved my children. And for the bishop to say for her to divorce me, she said, OK. And like you said, started her. And then in 2000, I wrote a book. I went into the school of ministry, Calvary Chapel for two years. Learned the Bible through Chuck Smith.
Evangelicalism. Wrote a book called Born Again Mormon. Somebody here asked if you want to be on a TV show, host it. We said okay. We came up here and did that. And that launched us into this recorded medium that we’ve been doing since 2006. Heart of the Matter. Heart of the Matter. That’s what this is.
Yeah. It’s the legacy. It’s what this is. Yeah. It’s the legacy keeps going. Yeah. Okay. And before, I just want to jump in on here to give just some backfill so people understand. We are not into this so that we can become loved, get likes, start a new church. We’ve never been about that. We’ve been about discovering, finding the truth.
Yeah. Just watch the 20 years of content and you’ll very much see that. And so we’ve done the homework that most people don’t do. And that’s why I speak so emphatically and without much hesitation, because truly have tested almost everything when it comes to this subject yeah and it will be it’s clear across i think it’s clear across the content but this is you as we said in the last epiphany episode the first one that we just did this is a biblical philosophy yes it’s a philosophy that you’ve come to teach but
yeshuans is about like disagreement and all like it’s not religious and it’s not liberty to speak your mind yeah no doctrines no practices we just teach yeah but you speak emphatically so people don’t always hear it that way but that is at the essence of the emphasis is disagreement. It is love in the face of it.
So anyway. Well, wait, can I ask you? So can you say what you think that means when we say love is a difference? We don’t mind differences. So what does that look like, in your opinion, as a yeshuan? Do we demand people believe like us? Do we say people can be LDS, Catholic, Buddhist? Yeah, Yeshuans is, it’s funny because I’m working through this a little bit even still, at its core, like yes, she wins.
100% is about individuals coming to stand on their own two feet with whatever they believe. Amen. That is like, that is the goal of someone partaking of the content. I, yeah, she wins, even though that content has a objective that you’re trying to teach or whatever it is like it’s to get you to think and be able to like go before god and say this is what i am with confidence and um and personal responsibility yeah so that means it’s very much not a group it’s not a system it’s not religious uh it’s not an institution it’s um a vehicle for people to go out into the world rather collect into one spot with
like-mindedness so the hope is that lds people come on, learn from the Yeshua approach and go back into the Mormon church and apply that. Right. Go back to your atheist circle and apply it wherever you are. Yeah. That’s what Yeshua is. So if someone was talking to you, let me be that someone. And they say, well, do you guys accept anybody? I’m going to question you.
Do you guys accept anybody? Of course. Yeah. Would you accept a child molesting, heroin addicted atheist who comes and says they want to study with you? Yeah. Is there anything, anybody’s doctrinal theological beliefs from any realm of the world where we would say you’re not welcome as a Yeshua? No.
No. See, so we didn’t plan this. She’s learned this. that’s what it really is so the hang-up that people have is always that we’re promoting those things and i think it’s also evident if you go through the content that that is not at all the case it’s about growth and maturity spiritual maturity growing out of the natural ways that we are as much as possible, but in with the correct cart and horse order of like, you know, you’re never going to be perfect and Yeshua already covered it and whatever.
So, um, and like there’s civil law that will handle a a rapist or something like that that has its place that the church is not like that can handle that yeah okay so uh onward that’s what my mormon history was and uh that’s what we’ve been doing ever since okay so um i’m noticing you’re already at the end of your paper what are you no no no i want to go back into what you just said just to clarify some things so like you’ve had a that was like the factual history of it you’ve had like a certain
like the factual history of it you’ve had like a certain like you haven’t let it go clearly like and ex-mormons get accused of that but it’s in a very different way than you have like you’re they are like shitting on it for the rest of their life excuse my french but um you are like have made it i think your life’s goal to figure out how to help it or help its members, not necessarily its profits or something. Right.
Can I read a quote that the quote is truly loving something means being willing to relentlessly attack whatever threatens its survival, including its own foundation’s history, bloated authorities, and internal evils. Truly loving something means having the courage to demand necessary changes that those in charge have been unwilling to make. I have truly loved the Latter-day Saints.
I wrote that in my journal. Yeah. You really have. That’s what Ark Studied refers to, spoiler alert, is studying the Ark of the Mormon church, actually giving it a really viable solution to study the chaos, the chaotic arc that it’s on. And that’s a prophecy of Joseph Smith, and we’ll get into it. But you love it.
You love its people. Love its people and its organization. Not as a, we’ll talk about that. Not as a, yeah, you love it as a structure. You think it’s genius. My quote is it’s good, but it’s not true. Yeah. That’s the whole thing. And that will be explained, but okay. So you haven’t let it go because you love it. All of your work, it has been extremely consistent.
Unlike what Christians say, because Christians have never heard what Christians don’t know what it’s like to come out of the Mormon church. And I think because of that, they’ve never heard you. So you were born again and you wrote a book called born again, Mormon. And the whole premise that’s launched the ministry. Literally the first thing you ever wrote for in ministerial purposes was an argument to be a part of the Mormon church while born again. That was the, that was the argument.
That’s what you, and then you start a show off of it and you go back in those archives and people call in and say, should I leave the church? And you’re like, no, just stay in it. Don’t worry, but figure out your relationship with God. Like that has been the thing you’ve said from the start.
It’s still what we’re saying. Christians thought you went crazy and it’s like, I’ve never seen something more consistent, but yeah, I guess I just wanted to articulate that. And like the fact that it’s been consistent and the fact that it’s about, that’s been at the core of it is this personal experience that you had and you wanting people to have that as well yeah that’s all personal experience and doctrinal and practical reform uh if possible okay within the church and so that took to just overview heart of the matter really fast that took a specific pathway because your first thought was to go to evangelicalism because they’re the ones that talk about Jesus.
They’re the ones that that was it was an evangelical radio program that sort of got you to understand this. got you to understand this. And so you went through what it seems like was phases of heart of the matter, which were first deconstruction of Mormonism, then deconstruction of evangelicalism when you realized more about the thing you were kind of promoting.
And then it was finding the foundation of faith and love. And then it was recalibrating and now it’s like implementing yes well put would you say did you learn that skill to categorize things so well um sorry i’m talking a lot but no this is wonderful stage of um like i don’t think we need to super go into that but you want to talk about that arc at all? No, the only thing I would say about it is we have been mocked, attacked, maligned, criticized, laughed at.
Because when you’ve embraced evangelicalism as the response to Mormonism, and you go in with it, and then you find that it has as many holes as Mormonism, but in different ways, then you have to start to try to figure out what is true. And I had to start over and do the research, and it took us 13 years years and what we’ve always said and always believed and I will forever believe this is as you’re growing you’re going to change if you’re not you’re just you’re just chomping on tradition and you’re not really maturing yeah so we will
test thing we have tested things and thrown them away tested things and tried something done this done that name things done this, done that, named things, done this. And, you know, we don’t care if people laugh and mock because we knew there was a long game in this. Yeah. And we’ve always played the long game in the ministry.
This is not some fly by night ex-Mormon saying, you know, did you know they practice polygamy? This is not that at all. And if you can’t take that, I’m getting mad at you. Well, okay. So that’s the thing is that we’ve kind of come to even with the Eshuans is that the material manifestation of the things changed. Yeah. manifestation of the things changed yeah because the there was a very consistent motivation which is like what is god right that’s always been at the heart and so to address the question why are you different from other lds critics i don’t think any like i don’t know of any popular
one at least that is like criticizing the morm Mormon church from a perspective of, like, truth in God. It’s always from, like, a doctrinal position or an atheist position or a humanist position. Anti-Mormon position. Anti-Mormon. Like, yeah. So do you want to just explain what makes you unique? What makes you unique? And it will probably be explained more.
Well, I think we can harken back to what led to me writing Born Again Mormon is that I was Mormon and I was born again as a Mormon. Yeah. And I had an evangelical tell me that’s not possible. Literally. Literally tell me that’s not possible. At Supermax on Beach Boulevard.
Oh beach boulevard i know where i was sitting not that that it born again it’s so profound how born again mormon explains yeshuans like it’s the separation of your fleshly circumstance your religious circumstance from your heart yeah heart and soul and we talked about that in the last episode yeah so uh what it really hearkens to is that i had a direct experience with the living god you can challenge it question it deny it but i think the fruit of our labors proves and the quality of our labors proves something happened yeah you’ve done the life’s work shows shows something happened to you.
Something happened. Now, our atheist friends like Dylann and Anthony Magnabosco and Bill Reel, they have all tried to, and even my own brother, have tried to say, well, that was a psychological thing and that was your need for a correction. Have you considered another thing that possibly could have happened? And my response is always, I’m just like the man who was born blind in the Bible.
You know, he, when they asked him, you know, what do you know about this guy who did it? He says, I don’t know if he’s a sinner or not, but all I know I was blind and now I see. And if you want to compare me before and to what I am now and what I’ve become in terms of seeing spiritual things, you can say it’s my own psychological needs. But you can bite the wall because it’s Christ in me that has given me the illumination, a sinner, fully, fully.
Nothing about me. And that’s a repeated thing we say. I love when people just reveal themselves to those questions. Like, you think you’re not influenced by, like, the enlightenment, like, emphasizing ration and logic. Like, we’re all just situated in a—and also to try and chip away at this thing that’s changed you.
Like, what’s your motivation? Why does it matter to you? Because they don’t believe. So therefore I couldn’t be right. Yeah. It’s pretty wild. Yeah. Talk about like, uh, I don’t know, just share of yourself. Yeah. On the other side of it, uh, when that event happened, I was still, I stayed in the LDS church for four years taking you guys to church and everything and but i tried to incorporate stuff that i had spiritually already understood and we had a good friend who was dying of cancer and i called people in the
ward and said can we go to their house and we met in their backyard and we gathered around and we held hands and we prayed. And this is so unusual for, and the bishop of that ward said to members, this is a quote, I don’t know what that’s going to do when we’ve already given him a priesthood blessing.
Wow. Unreal. It’s things like that, that, I mean, they just manifest what religious control wants to do with people. For sure. Also, it should be mentioned, like, just the themes of what you’ll present as Ark Steady are coming out as we go. And, like, one of them is the question that you’ll ask in, like, group discussions with apologists and stuff.
Like, you were believing that Jesus was our older brother when God spoke to you. Yeah. I believe God was once a man when he spoke to me. Yeah. Yeah. Like your ontological understanding of God was LDS explicitly, and God communicated with you still. Like you still were able to break through that. And so it’s just an evidence that of the separation between heart and soul, material and spirit, whatever it is, that is the full on foundation of Yeshuans now and and what we’re doing but it just has always been there
so um okay can you believe that when we decide to do this these guys behind us start playing music i know it drives me nuts i hope you all can’t hear that. If you can hear it, tune it out, please. We’re in a warehouse and can’t control the neighbors. Okay. I think that’s good enough and we’ll clarify more of it.
But let’s talk about the prophecy of studying the Ark. Joseph Smith. Already? I think so. do you have any like i think other things will come up that clarify the past or do you have no i think it’s good whatever whatever i’m here to follow the spirit of god and that’s what i’m looking through these papers so i can read that prophecy well no tell me are, what comes before that? No, I want to go this way.
I think it’s good. Okay. Because this, first of all, was not something that was part of my intention or makeup, his prophecy found in Doctrine and Covenants 85. It was not part of our motive for operation from the get-go. It’s come into play recently, but I’ve always had a kinship metaphysically with Smith.
Yeah. And we can talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. But we can come back to that one. Yeah. Yeah. But we can come back to that one. Yeah. I think just introducing this thing that Joseph Smith did. Okay. And how it applies to the LDS Church. And as we talk about it, it will, you know, we already established what the yeshuan is in the last episode.
So we can apply that as we go but yeshuans that well I feel like I’ve skipped no my daughter’s very conscientious about stepping on my toes this is good this is okay so I want to read it in 1832 this is from a presentation I gave to our supporters on November 1st. In 1832, Joseph Smith, Jr.
prophesied the following, and I wrote, Whether from God, the dark, or himself, no one can really say. But from Wikipedia, we read, not that it’s the source, but it says, In a letter written to W.W. Phelps on November 27th, 1832, letter written to W.W. Phelps on November 27th, 1832, Joseph Smith transcribed a revelation that said he received from Jesus Christ. So this is what Joseph Smith would do.
He had his imaginations and he took those imaginations and he assigned them to God. Okay. And that was his thing. All right. And it says, and it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God will send one mighty and strong holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words, while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth to set Verse 2.
called of God and appointed, that put forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the vivid shaft of lightning. These things I say not of myself. Therefore, as the Lord speaketh, he will also fulfill. Okay. And in 1876, the prophecy was included in section 85 of the LDS Church’s edition of the Doctrine and Covenants. And that section continues to be found in the modern LDS Church’s edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, and that section continues to be found in the modern LDS Church scripture.
It’s been canonized, okay? So over the course of LDS history, many people have risen up, and they’ve said, I’m the mighty and strong one, and they’ve said, I’m here to steady the ark, okay. So I just want to bring out a couple absolute facts. We are not the first people to attack the church. Obviously. It’s been going on forever. It hasn’t done anything.
But we aren’t the first. And the Tanners and everybody going Herbert and all these other guys. Okay. Herbert and all these other guys. Okay. Um, but, um, we happen to come into a televised ministry right at a time before social media had legs before YouTube was really a thing. We were just doing a television show here in the state.
And a guy in Sweden said, can I take your stuff and put it on YouTube? Well, we said, sure, whatever that is, literally. And he did. And that established us as a voice through that medium that was helping to cause the church to get to a hemorrhage point that it’s at today. So I am not saying that was me.
I’m saying it’s God. And he used our content and he used technology to help bring the church to its shaking place 20 years later. You know, and other people helped do that. You know, and they had John Dillon and I started at the same time. And he has a he has a progressive intellectual way of doing it.
He contributed to it. We’re not alone. But it’s ironic that we in what we did help shake this thing to the point that, I mean, no one really gives us credit, but it was our content on air that really caused this thing to start to hemorrhage. And now I think the reason I bring it up so early is to not bury the lead that we think we have an idea of how it will be studied.
That’s right. As well. That’s the thing. So you shook it up and now, not you, and again, not bearing the lead, you’re not the mighty and strong one. Right. This isn’t that sort of thing. But there’s an answer to this offered at Yeshuans that might study it. It might study it if people now again on social media would see what we’ve concluded and seen and in the membership directly because the leaders and we’ll find out the leaders aren’t going to respond to it but the individuals who are seekers the the ones who cling to the church
as absolutely true and no one can say anything against it they’re never going to listen to anything a guy like me says but seekers of god they could hear this and they might continue to be lds but start to embrace what we are saying this is a better way yeah yeah 100 and it should be known that i think it studies the arc of the world, of religion in general, of everything.
It’s just that the Mormons have a direct prophecy of this. And I think it is really applicable to them. And Delaney’s call is to take it and move it into other vestiges of organized religion and even philosophy and the world it’s that significant of a discovery but I because I was LDS and you were too but because I was raised in it I have my initial desire to use it as a plug-in to replace the absolute bs that they have uh that they live by well i full i mean i have mormonism deep inside me and fully believe that and i just think that bs
bleeds out from just mormonism too and it it this really does steady the arc of the world like the chaos that we feel in the world right now so um okay that’s the claim yeshuans has uh as an organization you well maybe we should clarify that who is it right now it’s offering uh an approach to studying the ark we are yeah through uh all of our research that can be vetted and tested and we adamantly say don’t follow us yeah uh but test what we say okay and if you’re a seeker you’ll do that if you’re a
dogmatist religionist you won won’t. Right. Okay. So listen now for the rest of it to hear how exactly that plays out, but that’s the claim and that’s what we’re standing by. And that’s the objective of at least the year 2026 at Yeshuans. And I think forever is to, to help people come to this understanding of finding stable ground for themselves. Okay.
There are implications to this before we actually state all the answers though, that have to be addressed that are like, um, we’ve already been challenged on a lot. like, um, we’ve already been challenged on a lot. One is you’re acknowledging Joseph Smith here as prophesying correctly. You’re trying to study an institution that you also don’t think is, is like leads to death or different things.
So do think leads just to uh death meaning it doesn’t carry on into heaven right um so let’s go over even though you can watch the previous episode of epiphany let’s go over what yeshuans teaches, what you discovered in all your teachings across Heart of the Matter, deconstruction, recalibrating, rebuilding, implementing. What is it that you’ve come to realize about the Mormon church and what will study it? Okay. So we’re speaking from a biblical perspective that can be tested and challenged.
And I’m going to give you the outline because to give you in depth would take 30 hours. For sure. Okay. The outline is this. God created man in his own image. Male and female created he them. So we call that Adam and Eve. And he gave them a place in a garden and he said, it’s yours. He even told them, have dominion over it, subdue it, it’s yours, multiply and replenish, and don’t eat of this tree, called the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Because in the day that you do, you will surely die. He also said there’s a tree called the tree of life. You can eat from that all you want. And you can eat from all the other trees in the garden. But don’t eat of that tree. in the garden, but don’t eat of that tree. Now the LDS right off the bat, start with God being a wink, wink, don’t eat of that tree.
You know, you know, those cookies are on the table, but don’t eat them. Wink, wink. And, um, the LDS founder and their people who followed him suggested that God really wanted them to eat of that tree so that they could, their eyes could open and they could see how to live and grow through adversity. They call it a fall upward. Okay. A fall upward.
That’s almost as contradictory as the Trinity, you know, a fall upward. Uh, as contradictory as the trinity you know a fall upward uh that’s a place without gravity so anyway so um and that is principally theologically diabolical to what god said what did he want He wanted that first couple to trust him.
And he knew that the knowledge you’re going to get from disobeying my directive is going to ruin you. You’re going to die because one, you rebelled against me in the day that you eat of it. And you’re never going to be able to rightly manage the knowledge that’s going to come from eating that.
Now the serpent comes along and says, you’ll be as the gods, you know, knowing good from evil, eat of it, eat of it. And we know that Eve said, well, it’s pleasant to the eyes. It’s delicious. It looks delicious to the taste, good for food. And it makes one wise. So it was Eve’s desire to be wise through a shortcut that led her to eat of that fruit and give it to Adam who was so whipped apparently he just ate it in rebellion he knew he shouldn’t but he did it okay and that led it did several things but really quickly it led to their fall
it led to them being removed from the garden it led to their eyes being open it led to them realizing that they were naked and they hid themselves and they tried to play religion by putting on fig leaves there’s all this stuff involved it also led to something that I can’t prove, and it is all conjecture, but it’s biblically supported, and that is I believe that when Adam and Eve said, God, we don’t want to live by faith.
We want to live by knowledge. opened up because God gave humans dominion over this world. They opened up what I call a reservoir for the spirit of man. And Paul talks about the spirit of man. Job talks about the spirit of man. That man, human beings, we have a spirit. God made us in his image, so we have power and intellect and abilities.
But because we’re not God, we don’t know how to manage those when given all kinds of input, and that has led us to all sorts of problems. Had Adam and Eve and their posterity chosen to follow him in faith, he would have taught them everything they need to know.
He would have shown them how to multiply and replenish the earth. They had animals, you know, and he would have taught them everything. And that’s the whole point of the scripture. Come to me directly. I will teach you. Trust me. And they said no. Okay. So when that reservoir of human knowledge opened, I suggest in harmony with mystics like Carl Jung and Madame Blavatsky and Dostoevsky and all these mystical-minded people, I believe that we started, every human being born started to contribute to that reservoir by and through the evil they do and the good they do.
Because it’s the knowledge of good and evil. By the knowledge that they do, really. Right, by their knowledge. Their knowledge. Because they’re made in God’s image and they’ve received knowledge by this. And God said, don’t do it. Yeah. But they did. And the good and the evil are on the same plane. Same plane.
In the same realm. Right. Because that realm is this world, this life. And so over eons of time, humanity, cultures, zeitgeist thinking, collective humanism has led to good from that, like medicine and technology. And people want to say God has given us, I think the spirit of man, because we were made in his image, has given us that ability to do good things.
But others have said, I want to do dark, evil things. But it all comes and ends up in the same place. It’s the reservoir of man. So there have been people who have come forward and have said, God is talking to me. And this is what I want you to understand that he’s saying. And they’ve used his name like Joseph Smith did here in giving revelation. And every other religious founder after Christ has operated and established religious institutions by the spirit of man.
Right. Smith’s was ingenious. Elon Musk is with technology and any person who is super gifted in their specific spirit of man realm to create a system. And I’ve said this, he did it through using the Bible because he knew it from his mother really well. And then amalgamating it in with another spirit of man force called Freemasonry.
And he concocted a system that takes the principles of Freemasonry to make people get better through oaths and rituals and rites, and he mixed it in with Christ. And so he made a religion of it. The whole religion doctrinally is well not absolutely it is mostly anathematic to the biblical truth but it is of the spirit of man and here’s the thing about it it’s good why because smith and mormons and latter-day Saints are focused on the good that the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good does, not the evil.
Okay. And so they want to make society better. They want to live healthy lives. They’re made of good people who want to do good in this world. And people who like that stuff are attracted to Mormonism. People who like that stuff are attracted to Mormonism. The problem with me being born into it is I am attracted metaphysically, naturally to the evil.
I am attracted to the dark. Which is in the same realm as the good. Same realm. That’s right. It’s not worse or better. Not worse or better. It’s not good. Except in this world. Right. Because in this world, doing Mormonism results in good. And this is a thing that I’ve tried to say. Mormonism in this world is good, but it’s not true.
And if you don’t realize that, then you are going to think it’s true because it’s good. Again, because it is a tree that leads to death, the goodness is mixed in with evil and it does have a cost. And so that is the primary thing to understand about what Mormonism is from its roots.
It wants to do good in the world, but it is not true. Similar to, I’m sorry, no one likes this, to the Third Reich. Hitler hated, he hated drunkenness, even though he was a drug addict. Burlesque, same exact spirit. It’s from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good all right okay okay so okay there’s so much i could unpack but like i just want to know before i forget that i think you are particularly attuned to be able to bring this to the LDS because of this exact problem, because you liked the evil and you knew with your experience with God that that was not true.
That wasn’t truly you. It was the way your mind worked in this world your heart so then you took these 20 years to unpack what is true what’s evil what’s good what’s god what’s man what’s this world okay so and this is the culmination it’s and we talked about it more in the last episode, but it’s the division of the spirit of man and the spirit of Christ, meaning the spirit of man is this world. It’s material.
It stays here. It does not carry with you. Uh, and then there’s a spirit of Christ that effect that is in each person’s heart. And that’s what life is working on that and it comes with us to the heavenly realm right the latter-day saints think the good they do here like elon musk making a tesla that’s good quote unquote uh is going to go with them because it’s good here and that is so not biblically supported and it goes as deep as like you had to work through mind, will, and emotion, soul, like things that are not materially like, or they’re not physical, but they’re material still.
They’re part of our material, meaning they’re part of our earthly condition as a human that has is determined. It’s genetic. It has all these conditions like you can’t help it what you feel how you react to your feelings what you’re thinking but the whole thing with yeshuans and that you’ve come to is that you still there’s some agency in a person and it is what god sees and that’s it so that is backed up by a ton of biblical study that people call heretical often but the position is fulfillment and we went over
these things last episode so and go to yes you and you’ll learn a lot more about that. But it’s really this idea that Christ had the total victory, that this Bible thing isn’t telling us of a fearful future thing that we’re still working on is that he completed it. Right. So. And I just want to stop.
His victory was over the effects of the fall completely. And it was over our defective minds, our defective will, and our defective emotions. That’s a free gift that Christ gave to everybody in the world where he cannot reign unless we allow him is in our motivation, intentions, and heart. And God knows and judges us by that.
So when you incorporate this stuff into your belief system, you’ll find that religion will focus on you fixing your mind and your will and your emotion and your body. And you will stop and sin and everything else where Christ and God’s mercy is. I’ve taken care of those failures that you’ve got genetically, circumstantially out of weakness.
You are now free to live according to your heart’s desires. Right. Yeah. So there are so many, like I said, implications to this. Like, um, and I don’t want to like be redundant on all the things we went over in the last episode. So go, go study what we’re teaching back then in that one. But this separation of the spirit of man, the spirit of Christ, meaning all religion is working in the spirit of man.
All these people, these leaders are working in the spirit of man. That division and then also the division of our heart from our body, mind, will, and emotion. Make it so that Yeshua teaches that you can be in any religious setting. That’s right. And use it to your needs. Right. The problem is keeping that disconnected from truth, from God, like knowing which, where each one lies.
That is where there still needs to be a lot of work to criticize institutions is like the harm that they do is telling people that they represent God. That’s one problem. Yeah. But like the authority at its core, it’s the connection to God, the connection to truth, saying that whatever you do with this institution is going to affect you in the afterlife. Like this connection of the two separate things that Yeshua is trying to divide is I think at the core of the problem right and that’s what yeshua resolved so and yet people overlook yes and have overlooked for 2 000 years
right so okay and a line that you use to describe this is that everything before yeshua was put under his feet all the bible everything that we understand about christianity put under yeshua’s feet and everything since he’s allowed god has allowed he’s allowed it can i talk on it yes okay so this is biblical christ even before he ascended said all power in heaven and earth has been given to me.
Okay? He said that Satan’s reign was going to end. And Revelation says Satan and his angels and hell were cast into the lake of fire. He had everything of the former economy that was brought in and introduced to the world through Adam and Eve. He put it under his feet okay so that includes as dr.
Michael Heiser talks about in the book of Job and other places a heavenly realm of spirits demons gods angels that were all over the place, as recorded in the Old Testament, that were plaguing human beings because human beings had fallen. And human beings had no way, except God’s law, to try to offset that. And so Christ came to rescue, and he overcame, and he beat them. Done. Okay. And that caused God to say, and when that happens, I will start writing my law on people’s hearts and minds.
That is why we say religion is over. People ignore that stuff and they say, well, you know, he hasn’t come back yet. So we got to keep playing. I’m getting ahead of myself. No, no, it’s okay. But bottom line, it’s the reality is Christ has had the victory. And if you don’t believe that, then just start to work through it rationally from what the scripture says, and then test and challenge our findings, especially through the book of Revelation and all that stuff.
Okay. So this is going to be the basis of what studies the ark yeah but before we really talk about that the other half of that statement is that he’s allowed everything since so you kind of already described it but everything that has happened since like all the manipulations of doctrine, of creating new denominations, religions, all of it from Catholicism to now and before, whatever, is he’s allowed, which means he allowed Joseph Smith to create Mormonism. Absolutely. Just like he allowed Charles Taz Russell and
Ellen G. White and Mary Baker Eddy and all of them to do what they do. It’s just Smith was great at it. He was great at it. He created a great institution that works really well in this realm. That’s right. For good.
For good. There are institutions that work really well in this realm that’s right for good for good there are institutions that work really well for bad yes i would like there’s more to that because i think good and bad are like you could say it’s bad you’re dicey good it’s not that it’s like mormonism is good no no no no no no it’s just a way of talking about they promote human good yeah they promote it but they go about the wrong means right yeah and they shift in order to keep the good being their intention so the answer for that is this that they’re working in the spirit of man yeah we say there’s no
prophets of god anymore you’re if you’re a, you’re a prophet of the spirit of man. You’re able to speak to this realm with more excellence than someone else. Great artists, whatever. Like you said, Thomas Edison, all these people, they’re contributing to this world. Joseph Smith did that.
I think you do that. It should be made clear. Yeshuans is of the spirit of man. Absolutely. We have nothing to add to what Christ has done. It’s all there. He’s accomplished it. It’s finished. So we don’t receive revelations from God. We just have realizations about what he has said and done. I personally, and this is going to get dicey for people, I personally believe I receive revelations from the spirit of man.
I think you do too. No different than Carl Jung. Yeah. No different from James Hetfield getting songs to create that make us really heavy. And so I have had those inclinations since I was a kid, but they’re toward dark things. So I had to try to reconcile what do I do with this thing that I get and see and my mockery for the good things that the Mormons are all about. And it’s all spirit of man though.
And I’m glad you pointed that out. Yeah. And I, well, just, it just needs to be, to set the stage for everything we’re going to say. Again, we call Yeshua and what we bring at Yeshua into philosophy. Like it’s debatable. It’s of this time. Like it’s what we need right now. Right. Like it will be added onto and refined and get got made better.
It’s not permanent. Right. It’s the best with what we have. And if we said it was permanent, it would be a religion. Yes. Because it means it stands the test of eternity. That’s right. It bleeds into saying it’s completely eternally true. Right. So. Can I add something about the spirit of man? And that is, um, um, I personally, like others, resonate to understanding the dark forces in this world.
Mm-hmm. in this world and um that is from i believe the collective and young talks a lot about that and the collective and the shadow and all of that and that’s part of our psychology and all created by the evolution of the spirit of man as man has lived, men and women, and contributed to the reservoir of thought, we can see how we’ve gotten better and better and improved through the spirit of man evolution.
We’ve learned, hey, you know, you don’t want to give your kids thalidomide. It makes them have no limbs. The spirit of man. And so God has allowed us, because we’re made in his image, to do that. And it’s that evolution that brought Smith forward in his day and age to say, look, man, you evangelicals, this is not doing, I’m going to give you a system that will really work to do good because he’s looking at all these people claiming Jesus and they weren’t doing the good.
looking at all these people claiming Jesus and they weren’t doing the good. He was a very actually moral man. He had human failures, which he created doctrines to protect, but he wanted good. He wanted to build cities. Brigham Young was right after him, spirit of man. But he did a diabolical thing because of his nature. He let it go to his head.
So his spirit of man said, hey, take on some extra lives, man. And his spirit of man, yeah, let’s incorporate this into the system. And it lasted for a while. Then they got rid of it. They have so many things that are from the spirit of man that do good. But again, I’ll say they use evil practices that are not of God to enforce them.
Right. And yeah. Okay. So I don’t have anything to add to that. Okay. Do you want me to continue while you think? Yeah. continue while you think yeah well i just wanted to point out that a few things like i think this holds so much water even if you’re not as mystical lee minded like sure i i just want to make it clear i guess because I think you function a really certain way.
And I think it’s very valid. Like, I wish I was more mystical, but I’m not. And I still think it’s like really makes it’s like airtight. It makes so much sense, too. So like it’s not to be written off or something. That’s for mystics only yes like young or like you know like it actually is true like the spirit of man functions off of knowledge like there are people that are just like analytically better with knowledge yes like it doesn’t have to be that a, like, spirit came into them. No.
Even though I do think that’s totally, like, it doesn’t, it’s not that you have to be mystical to believe. Not at all. Not at all. I just think that what happened is, and I’m really glad you brought that up. This accords with 1 Corinthians, where Paul says, God uses the weak things of the world. And I’m not saying this tongue-in-cheek and, you know, self-effacing.
I am a dark soul. I understand the dark. I like it. I’ve known it and understood it since a child. I saw a dead lady come to me when I was a very, all those things, but they’re all from that reservoir of the spirit of man. And God said, I’m going to use this fricker who’s the weakest of the weak to shake and break up the falsehood of religion.
to shake and break up the falsehood of religion. And that’s what I see my gift as a man, as a man, not as a prophet, as a man to do with my life. That’s why I’ve stuck on Mormonism, because Smith and I, we relate greatly, but I am not trying to be him, because he was not true. He was not, he actually was a con man, actually little as part of his flesh. And he was all the things that come. He loved money. He loved women. He loved drink.
So do I. So we have all that in common. But the difference between us in the spirit of man is I’m not willing to sell out my flesh and my weakness and justify it if there’s something that’s true. Yeah. Well, that, yeah, like it, it’s just what is so radical and very valid to me about this position is that it puts us in the same realm like it puts how you work in the same realm as how i work and as both not being connected to god yeah your soul is dark and my soul light is kind of light like it likes mormonism it likes like nice happy things yeah and
like nice happy things yeah and but your heart’s not evil and my heart is not good necessarily like the you know like the connection is not and so that’s what this is doing is recalibrating how god works one thing i wanted to ask before we clarify more is we say that everything that’s happened since christ he’s allowed yeah and we say it’s of the spirit of man that is developed is there any i think it’s still being explored like what god does have a hand in because i think there’s so like that’s why you get, you get the comment of, well, if it’s good, isn’t it true? Or if Trump’s in
office, God put him there. Or if this happened, the Trinity stood the test of time. So God allowed it. It’s like, okay, it’s the most backward logic because so many things have stood the test of time that oppose those things as well. So like, what does God have a hand in? I don’t think we know. Okay.
But I will say, I do personally believe that for those who in their heart have sought him, loved him, desire him, he will work with them through the spirit of Christ in them in ways that are different from those who just reject that spirit that’s in them too. Right. Yeah. Okay. So, but that’s kind of at the core of this is that if God works in this world, it’s with individuals that, that is like anything collective and like systematic is of the spirit of man.
God works with individuals and there’s no person that can say i have a revelation from god that we should all x y or z right like that is what yeshuan stands on right okay so why you’re you you cogitate go ahead so i’m to do something that we did in a meeting on November 1st, but it’s something I’ve always known. Okay. Talking about the spirit of man.
And again, to reiterate what Delaney said, the mighty and strong one that Smith had the revelation of, if you read the description of the mighty and strong one, listen to how he describes him. He says that he has, he’s whole, he, I will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words, while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth to set in order the things of God.
The only human being who fits that is Christ. That’s why last week we say we have entered into the next age of the spirit of the risen Christ having returned. And I suggest by the spirit of man in me that this is now the fulfillment of the studying of the ark. Right. Yeah. So studying the ark is the objective here.
Right. is the objective here right and the to study the ark from the yeshuan perspective is for an individual to realize the victory that christ had right and how it is over the work has been done there’s nothing for them to do except to live in that now. Yeah. Like figure out how to live. From their heart.
From their heart. Yeah. With Christ in them alone. Right. And go into any institution or whatever. Right. And use that in your heart. Right. That will study any art. That’s right. That exists in this world. That’s right. Especially the L any art that’s right exists in this world that’s right especially the lds that’s right okay that’s how i see it now why especially the lds here’s where it gets weird and and remember i’m it’s not weird i’m metaphysically minded okay so joseph smith was born with what’s called a call on his head.
And in folk magic and folklore, that’s considered a sign of being able to have seership. Into the things of man, by the way. I was born the same way. I had a call over my face when I was born from both parents. His mother was religious. And his father was against organized religion. Same with my life. My mother was very religious. My father was not. He was the middle son.
I’m a middle son, but he had more siblings. He was questionable in his youth and in his teen activities, activities absolutely the same he was physically broad and strong and um large chested is the way they described him heavy in adulthood called portly he gained weight and you know you all know that’s me i’m not joseph smith it’s just some mystical parallels. It’s the spirit of man.
Spirit of man. He was a fighter. He was a wrestler. Same. He experienced being hypnotized. I did too when I was young by my dad. He was charismatic. He was charming. A central trait of my natural personality. He loved exposing religious hypocrisy. So do I. His oldest brother unexpectedly died. My oldest brother unexpectedly died. And that shook up his family and it shook up our family. He was a visionary. He saw dead people, he claimed to.
I have seen dead people and I think those visions are entirely possible because I think the dead of this world that live by the spirit of man exist in this world spiritually after life. It’s just a separate thing. He was a womanizer. Bottom line, and unfortunately I was the same. He was a conizer. Bottom line, and unfortunately, I was the same.
He was a con man. Unfortunately, I’m the same way still. If I need to get something and the way the rules work, I’m going to con the system to get it. Not out of theft and not out of individuals, but like a government or a corporation, no problem. He was a terrible financial manager. He was always in trouble. He created his own investments. Same.
I’ve struggled managing money my entire life. He had a heart for the poor. He came from poverty. He had a heart for, I have a heart for the poor. His wife, Emma was one year older than him. My wife, Mary, is a year older than me. His conversion, in his mind, he wanted to see his father convert. And while my dad was alive, I sought desperately to get my father to convert. Dr.
Nick Cummins, 24, 7 through 9, speaks of him. I don’t even remember what it says. The same of me. The autumnal equinox was the date where he received a heavenly experience that told him to go get the golden plates. On the night of the autumnal equinox, we moved into our house in Park City. A lightning storm was flashing. We watched the heavens open. We didn’t know any of these connections then.
And my brother died that night. And then he was called, of course, Joseph Smith. And the influences in my mind are phenomenal relative to that as Chuck Smith was a secondary Smith in my life where he was the first. So those mystical, strange ways that I see the world have led me since I started the ministry to know we have something in common.
But I really believe that metaphysically, God said these two spirit of men souls, this first one, he dropped the ball. This second one is going to show how he did it and why he was wrong. Yeah, because I think you understand him. I understand him. You understand his mind. Yeah. Those things go to show you have the same conditions around your mind, will, and emotion in this world that allow you to see things the same way he did.
Don’t misconstrue this. I am not, and I never want to be a Joseph Smith, and I don’t want to start a religion. None of that. And don’t be an idiot and go out and say, he’s saying, that’s not true. Yeah, if it’s not, that was the whole point of everything being said before all of this is that this is this is not like joseph smith was not a prophet of god no you are not a prophet of god you are not saying any you’re not speaking revelations from god no you don’t represent neither did he right did he. But he did something in this world as to all people. Everyone is doing things in this world. Right. Even evangelicals or Orthodox Christians or whatever, who think that they’re doing things for God. Right. They’re doing things in this world. Right. So mormons and so and my thing in this world not i don’t know
where if god’s involved in that but my thing in this world is he’s allowed me through the spirit of man to challenge this guy yeah yeah 100 you have yeah and god’s in you. To say, like, that’s just, it’s just this big separation. God is in you, and what you do in this world is not God-ordained, necessarily.
Right. Do you know what I mean? I admit that readily. Yeah. It’s every person. Yeah. And so, but I think what you’re doing is very good. I think it’s better than what he did. Yeah. And we’re going to explain why and how this is going to restead the arc that God allowed him to create. Yes. For whatever reason, he allowed him to.
He allowed it. We have to, like, you have to acknowledge that the LDS church exists. Yeah. So if the Catholicism exists and if, like, he allowed this too. Yeah. So if the Catholicism exists and if like he allowed this to. Yeah. So the prophecy. So back to the original criticism, it’s like you’re acknowledging that Joseph Smith got something right. Yeah. By the spirit because he prophesied. Right. It’s like, yeah, everyone gets things right. Everyone gets things wrong. Like, that doesn’t mean they’re of God or not of God.
Right. Someone being elected doesn’t mean they’re of God or not of God. Right. Nostradamus got things right. Carl Jung gets things right. Madame Vatsky gets things right. Does not mean it came from God. Yeah. Evil people and good people. Yeah. Charles Manson used to be able to prophesy. Yeah. Right.
So that’s off the table he can prophesy something it’s not of god right but and now this is an answer to it so and i just want to add the reason we stand on this position of we’re not getting revelation. We’re not prophets or seers or revelators of what God wants is to strip away the, what religion does and that’s try to take the heavenly economy and merge it with the earthly.
Yes. Yeah. And every religion wants to do that. Oh, they’re of God. He was led by God and we don’t need to do that because Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. So there’s no more need for heavenly revelations to come through prophets because the scripture calls him the prophet. It calls him the apostle.
And the Holy Spirit fell at Pentecost and we all now have him in us reconciled to that same garden choosing and deciding how we want to live right so religion is the merging of the two separate realms yep and we are anti-religious because you cut it’s not anti-religious is not denying God. It’s not saying they’re not connected.
So one’s a man and his best intentions or worse ones of God and it’s done. Yeah. And so that’s why I think you have such honestly, like a weird respect for the LDS church and for Joseph Smith because they like if religion is going to merge the heavenly realm and this realm, no one does it better than the Mormons.
Amen, sister. And that’s why they think they’re right and true. Yeah. But Smith’s full intention was to bring heaven to earth and create a theocracy, create a theocratic world where Mormonism will take over the world. They may do it. Yeah. But it doesn’t make them true. Yeah. And that’s why evangelicalism was such a joke when you leave Mormonism.
You call it Mormon light or whatever because it’s like, what do you guys think? This is like dumb. And they cower back into the corner and say, yeah, but we have the truth. No, you have the misappropriated anachronistic truth that you keep trying to play church and they’re just in between because they still merge the heavens and the earth like yeah they do in a lot of ways like they’re doing it but like not fully and it’s just not the mormons are very clear about what’s what and the yeshuans are very clear about what’s what in the opposite way
yep and so okay all right so reese let’s just like recap in a sentence what is studying the ark okay so So Joseph Smith used the Bible in the story of David bringing the Ark of the Covenant. That held sacred things. I won’t go into it. And the Ark of the Covenant was being transported wrongly by them.
They didn’t do what God told them to. And an ox was pulling it in a wagon. And the wagon hit a divot in the road, and the ark started to fall. Well, nobody was allowed to touch the ark, okay? And Uzzah, David’s friend’s servant, reached up to steady the ark from falling, and he was struck dead by God.
from falling, and he was struck dead by God. So Smith said in the future, when the church is going to be ready to fall, the one mighty and strong is going to come forward and steady the ark. And he says, but he’ll be struck down like lightning. That’s why, because he’ll be struck down by lightning, they’ve always associated it with another human.
But when you look at the description of Smith and who that one mighty and strong was, I think that when he says, and he’ll be struck down by lightning, I think he’s talking about the LDS proper won’t accept it. They won’t accept Christ coming and trying to fix it. They are going to strike him down like lightning because in this world, they’ve got too much power and they love the power in money.
So that’s how I interpret that revelation. Okay, we can get into why you think that because there’s a lot of reason for that. There’s a big reason for it. But, okay, so Joseph Smith prophesied that. You are coming forward. I’m coming forward with you. Our family. Our family as Yeshuans. And we launch Heart of the Matter Epiphany.
We establish that this is the next age of subjective faith. We are naming the next age of subjective faith we are naming and at the next age we’re in the purple era based on this diagram watch the last episode the next age is about subjective faith um and a dematerialized christ but uh and so now you’re proposing that Yeshuans is bringing a answer to the prophecy of setting the ark through a realization of Christ’s work.
Yeah. And just state that in one more sentence. You’re going to have to repeat it because I’m getting old and tired. Just clarify. What did Yeshua do in one time? I’m just trying to get a quick recap i believe that yeshua he returned physically to take his bride he gave us 2 000 years of almost of patriarchal reign over religion by most of them hearkening back to the law, forgetting that his work is finished and that everything is of the spirit and not of brick and mortar, and that he has risen up, not resurrected,
but he’s risen up spiritually in the hearts of those who are truly his. This is the moment we believe I’m saying started on January 6th of this year where that moment began. I think the dark forces are going to fight against it. I think the Mormon church in its authority and hierarchy will shoot him down like lightning.
But individuals are going to start to rise up in that. And that begins this entire next age. That’s what we are saying by the spirit of man okay and that’s what yeshuans is out to do is to bring information to people to be able to learn about how this happened and i love how you have captured what that information is you’ve said we’ve put i don’t know the bow or the concrete yeah yeah we’re just we just tied a bow or the concrete just cured on the foundation of the study and now we’re about to build on that and get it out and it’s in the way we have explained it is it’s
like an air freshener in a car the car could be owned owned by a Catholic, a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Hindu, a Mormon. But the air freshener of the thing that just cured with the bow wrapped around it is a plug-in. A realization of Christ in your heart directly. Yeah, irrespective of your doctrinal and practical beliefs, because God doesn’t care about those.
It’s the heart in which you relate to him by the spirit of his son. And it’s a plug-in into any religion. Yeah. So Latter-day Saints, now I got to make a strong pitch. You have a plug-in that we’re offering you. And instead of just abandoning that good organization for your family, cultural halls, all that stuff, start to consider what we are saying and then use it as a plugin for you to get truth amidst that earthly organization that’s good.
It will strengthen your organization. Strengthen. So on that note, you are trying to help the Mormon Church and you’ve already done a lot to try and do that tried so what did you do so an October of last year I made an appointment with the local bishop his bishop. His name is Bishop Sheffield. And my wife and I went in to meet him.
And I didn’t tell him about Ark Steady. And by the way, we wrote up our summary in a book called Ark Steady. Yes, all of this is available free for download at yeshuans.faith. And we’re hoping you LDS seekers will download our study, consider our findings, and see if it’s worth replacing everything Smith made up while you stay LDS with the actual biblical results of our findings. So we go to the bishop, and he was so nice, very lacrimal.
I think he cried like four times. And, uh, you know, I later learned from the stake president that we also saw that he was a medical doctor. So, you know, and, and it’s funny, the, the stake president dropped names of what people do constantly to us. You know, he was this and, oh, that he’s a medical doctor and, you know, constantly the man propping, which is what the Mormon church is built on, earthly good.
And the bishop, he said, well, what can I do for you? And I said to him, I want to see if I can rejoin the LDS church as a Christian. I said, all my former LDS friends and everybody sends me emails and texts and they say, oh, Sean, you know, I have a former mission companion I mean, we’ve done all these things to show you that God is working through our leaders to change.
All the pictures on the wall are just of Jesus now. All the pictures are of Jesus. And I mean, it’s just really a great show. So we walk in and I say, I want to rejoin as a Christian because everyone’s telling me that you’re really Christian now. And I said, can I? And he said, of course. Absolutely.
I thought, my goodness, maybe things really have changed. So he goes, well, let’s talk about a few things. First question, you willing to pay tithes? We address tithes. That’s the biggest game in the religious history, right? And I said, no, you aren’t. I said, no, you call it the law of tithing, Bishop, but I’m not going to be put under a law.
Paul says we are dead to the law. We’re alive in Christ. If I want to give money, I’ll give it by the Spirit in me. But I’m not going to agree to some 10% minimum to pay and play in this Mormon church. No, no, no, no. I’m a Christian, Bishop. So no, I’m not paying tithes. He’s like, huh, okay. Second question.
Do you drink coffee? Do you drink coffee? And I’m thinking, okay, where in the Gospels does Jesus say no coffee? You know, of course, I’m being tongue-in-cheek. And I said, I drink a lot of iced coffee. And he winced. He’s like, well, you know, that one we got to talk about. I said, I also use THC on the weekends. And you know what he said? He said, well, that’s okay.
He did. He said, I have a lot of people in our ward who use the thc for calm themselves and you’re not you’re not addicted to it i said no but i like it you don’t abuse it i said sort of i take a lot of it when i want it because it makes me feel good but so he goes okay well that’s not the big problem and then the the third question, do you accept Russell M.
Nelson as prophet and seer and revelator? I said, well, he could be called the prophet, seer, and revelator of this institution. And I’m thinking through the spirit of man, I could accept that as a leader. But is he the prophet? No, no, no, no, no, no. There’s only one prophet, the last prophet, Christ. He is our prophet, right? Well, bottom line, after more tears and saying, we really want you to come back to us, you know, brother.
And my poor wife, she’s so emotional she starts crying with him i’m like i am mary and uh and so he goes well i’m gonna have to run this up the flagpole let me send this up to president dredge oh you’re gonna love him he rides a harley and all the while the bishop’s talking to me he’s looking at my tattoos he’s looking at me and he’s he’s like but he was good so we left there I gotta tell you when we walked in the spirit of that place metaphysically through the spirit of man in me was scary I I actually came back feeling like I had sold my soul somehow
By even doing that So we go to the stake president A few weeks later Do you want to ask anything? Well that’s just Your reaction to it That is Totally subjective Remember everything we’ve said in this episode That you can use the worman church if you want yes you can i just because i know what they are actually about it i just have that but i could be wrong okay it’s my nature to love the dark not the good things right you just don’t you don’t fit in i just don’t fit in and i think i was just, Oh God, mom’s crying with the dude and mom loves good things. She loves, you know,
the Hills are alive with the sound of music and she loves good things. Her husband does not. So I think there is a difference. I’m glad you pointed that out. So we go to the stake president. This time I take Delaney and my wife and I’m just going to ask you, I’ve never asked you, what was your initial impression of that meeting? Oh my gosh. Well, I’ll tell my impression. I just didn’t think it was, I think it threw him off.
I think he didn’t know what to make of it. I felt like he, uh, he, you would talk and then he would turn to me and mom and talk to us. Like we were, I don’t know. Under my spell. Yeah. Like we needed, like he wasn’t gonna talk he wasn’t gonna convince you like but he could reach us like we were these dumb ladies yeah just sitting next to you that was my feeling okay about myself but super charming oh yeah he was like dressed to the nines like super very trying to um relate culturally very relatable with the stuff he does very
relatable yeah very good president dredge so i tell him the same thing and i also took a copy of ark steadied and i said this is what i believe after we talked and he didn’t seem to really care about that but i left it on his desk and i talked about the same things and bottom line he essentially said well you know i want to talk to you more about the priesthood i think he mentioned yeah he he you were saying you wanted to be baptized in the church as a christian yeah and you were very forthright that you didn’t like agree with things about the church
and he just couldn’t understand specifically the priesthood, why you’d want to get baptized by a priesthood if you didn’t believe that priesthood to hold power. And I was, uh, politely let him know that I’m not being baptized into the LDS church because of their false priesthood. I didn’t say false, but, and cause I don’t believe in that.
It’s not biblical in the least read the book of Hebrews, but I was being baptized as a Christian sold out to Christ because everyone says they’re Christian now. And I, we wanted to see how far that goes. And so he said, he bore witness to us. And he said, Sean, you and I have had a different experience. He was from Southern California.
We’re close to the same age. And he said, I grew up in a home where my dad was a stake president. And I had access to all the leaders coming in and visiting. And, you know, when I was 12, my dad, he gave me a Book of Mormon. And, you know, he said, read this, son. And I read it. And my heart was filled with knowing it was true.
And so, Sean, when any of this other stuff comes into play, and I know it’s out there, I just go back to my experience when I read the Book of Mormon when I was 12 when I was 12 because my dad gave it to me and I knew it was true and I thought and I’m just being honest President Dredge because I’m going to send this clip to you and hope you watch it I felt that’s really pathetic, man, that you loved your dad. Of course you respected him.
You wanted to believe, and you read the book he told you to read and it gives this promise to you that if you read it with a sincere heart, you’ll know it’s true. And I said, but the facts don’t matter. The feeling is all you have lived for for 60 some odd years. And it was really, really sad and embarrassing. But he said, I need to pray about it. On that note, it’s sad because Christ allows you to grow and learn.
You don’t have to stay put with Christ and not challenge him. And it’s not saying it’s pathetic that you’ve held on to a belief in Christ. It’s pathetic that you haven’t tried to pursue him more and challenge what you once believed and get better. Because that’s possible. And it wasn’t a belief in Christ that he attested to. It was a belief in a Book of Mormon.
And we’ve done dozens and dozens of shows on the Book of Mormon and how that thing came about. So, okay. So I go back, he makes another appointment and I go back and you and Mary aren’t with me because I think it was too late and you guys were tired and I was just wanting to get it done. Anyway, I went alone and he was in there and he was all excited to see Mary and Delaney.
And very nice again to me. And he said, you know, Sean, I don’t think it’s a good time for you to come back to the church. And I said, okay. And I said to him, or I said this to the bishop. I’m sorry, I can’t remember who I said this to.
Do you know why I’m doing this? I’m doing this so that your youth who are hemorrhaging from this religion, because they have the internet and they can see the data and the facts and the claims, and they’re really not into buying into a myth just to live good lives. Some of them are. But if your youth actually heard that you accepted a man back into the membership of your church who only believes and follows Christ as proven from 20 years, 40 books, 10,000 hours of teachings about Christ, that if you let him back in, it would benefit this institution. And he said, I don’t, something like, I don’t think our youth
are in trouble. And, and then he, but you know what he said to me before I left? He said, Sean, you’re trying. Very dismissive, condescending. I think he meant well. You’re trying very dismissive condescending I think he meant well you’re trying you’re doing your best Sean and that’s the attitude of the Mormon church nothing’s changed nothing has changed about it no doctrine it’s changed materially as we point out religions do change what culturally is necessary.
It’s good to stay alive. Yeah. And then say it’s God. Yeah. And then say a prophet of God revealed that they should do that. Like that is the heinous part. Like culture changes, institutions change. It’s great. To say God’s behind it. Yeah. Like let’s get real. Yeah. Why don’t they just admit that we have a really smart board of apostles and men who have PhDs and really accomplished and they can read a lot of stuff about this world and govern an institution.
Our hope was that the leaders, and we started there to show them respect for leadership and not jump rank. We didn’t try to go to the prophet. We went to the local leadership first and we’re shut down. I texted him about four weeks later, three weeks later, and I said, hey, President, you know, is there somebody above you that I could bring this petition to? And he very kindly and politely said, oh, that is so kind of you.
I know your intentions are good, Sean, but I already did that before you and I met. So it got above him without me even having to petition it. And what this has meant is that when any Mormon tells me they’re now Christian and that, uh, you know, to be a Christian, you can’t drink coffee and you have to pay tithes before you can even be baptized by their false priesthood, I can tell them they’re insane.
It is so far from what Christ has fulfilled. Even it’s so far afield from what he did when he was alive. So that is the end result. And we now have grounds to say, don’t tell me this. Okay. But got to be clear here because people don’t understand this you very like what we’re very much maintaining here is that a mormon can be in that institution and even believe in that priesthood and all the crap sure Sure. And their heart is in the right place with God.
And they’re fine with God and maybe enter the kingdom ahead of us. Yeah. Absolutely. We will also though, at the same time, point out that there are way better ways of understanding Christ than through your priesthood and your coffee drinking. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like, yeah, people just don’t understand that we can say both of those at the same time. We can, and we mean it.
And that’s why we’ve always said, I’m not against Mormons. Yeah. I’m against the institution. Yeah. And I want to say now that this is the thing that gets even more dicey, is the institution is good in this world for family activities and direction and clean living, but their doctrinal teachings lead to bondage spiritually and don’t go to the heavenly realm. Yeah.
And there are people within it that will be able to get past that bondage and figure out how to be in the institution. But there’s a lot of people that can’t. That’s right. Because they’re in it. And the institutions are powerful. And so it’s worth working on them and making them better. Right.
connect the guilt and horrific shame that they feel about who they are with respect to a false claim about God. God, his love is conditional. They’re always earning it. They have to earn it, and that’s bondage. And they don’t look to him as the author and finisher of faith. And that harkens back to why God said, don’t eat of that tree. The institution is an earthly, good earthly institution that leads to death.
And so what bugs me is that good people, and I know them, they’re in my family still. My oldest sister, she is devout. She has a heart for good in Christ and God. I think she’s going to be in that kingdom before me, but I think she’s going to be sorely surprised that all of her temple attendance and tithe pain and homage to a man, God is just going to be, it worked for you in this world, honey, but you know, you just missed the whole point yeah that’s why i’m driven yeah yeah and we talked a lot you talked about mostly the knowledge of tree of good
and evil to articulate what mormons are uh functioning through but just to wrap it up as yeshuans who think we’re in a new garden state there you say that’s death because it’s opposed to life there were two trees in the garden right there’s the tree of life and there’s the tree of knowledge and the tree of knowledge of either good and evil encapsulates the opposite of life that’s’s right.
And so life, good and evil are not life. That’s why the Mormon church can be good and not true. That’s right. Like life is the goal. Right. When it comes to Christ. And remember, when we talk about life, we’re not talking about happy living here. No, we’re talking about spiritual life and it’s called life just like Christ said, I’m the way, the truth and the life I am. That’s an eternal life.
What they are offering is life here in a good way. And I just worry so much about those poor souls who think that their salvation and relationship with God is predicated on that earthly institution. Yeah. It’s just unfortunate. It’s like, that’s the whole goal here is for them to see it. It could be so much better. So much.
Do you have anything else? No, except to say, uh, if you, if this resonates to you, go to yeshuans.faith and download the free ark-studied summary of our findings. See if it is a finished bode. How do you say it? Bode? Bode? Like a tied package. Tied, cured package. A package wrapped in bode.
like a tied package tied cured package that once you test it you say you know i think i can continue to be a member of this great earthly organization i don’t have to bear witness of of uh all the false things that smith incorporated because they are really false. And I can’t emphasize that enough because they lead to bondage. Yeah. And it’s possible. Yes, you ends the organization. Yes, you ends is filled with people signing up for that.
That are all in different circumstances. Every, you know, this person’s still going to the Mormon church because their wife goes and this person’s still going to the mormon church because their wife goes and this person’s a quaker and this one’s a like ex-muslim or what like they’re they’re they are there there are people out there that function this way and they’re the seekers they’re the hard to find but we’re trying to gather them together so we’re offering this cured package, this deodorizer to hang in your car,
and we’re saying just test it and see. Our hope, my hope, and in fact, we’ve even called this a Trojan horse for any institution, is that individuals will come to understand after they test our findings, and they’ll say, this is a plug-in I’m going to do to replace polygamy, temple endowments, laws, ordinances to be right with God.
And I’m going to stay in the institution and let my kids be part of the youth program and play in the basketball courts and do all the things that they’re about that are good. Hopefully the grassroots of that will steady the shaking arc. And one day the Mormon leadership will hear their members say, we’re done with believing in a man who looked into a hat and translated a book and, and, and said polygamy is of God and we’re done with all that.
We just are. We’re really yes. You ones that belong to this LDS institution. Yeah. Yeah. That’s the hope and other hope for every other religion. Yeah. Yeah. We’re moving the authority of God. Yeah. Yeah. That’s the hope. And other hope for every other religion. Yeah. Yeah. Removing the authority of God from the church.
Yeah. Ark Steady, the most advanced fair explanation of Mormonism that you have never heard until now. Thanks for tuning in and watching for as long as you did. We love you. Love you. Bye. We’ll be you next time. you you